Eternal X 1.2

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Re: Eternal X 1.2

Post Dec 1st '18, 20:17

Oh yeah, hadn’t thought of the co-op thing. Though you could just make all but the first network only and then not worry about it I guess? It probably doesn’t matter if net players get extra canisters; that’s hardly gonna be the weirdest thing about playing Eternal in co-op.

(And I presume it does take a couple seconds to recharge shields, right? Whereas a canister would recharge you instantly. The other possibility is just using Lua to set everyone’s shields to 450 at the start of the level, though I kinda doubt if Pfhorrest would go for that.)

Speaking of which, we should probably test co-op. A lot. A few months ago, I noticed a potentially game-breaking bug in “My Kingdom Pfhor a Horse” where a platform could get stuck in the up position and none of the players in a co-op game would be able to finish it. We should look for more stuff like that.

Anyway, latest “Killing the Giants” video.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 1st '18, 21:58

okay
-removed the water
-set the door to open once and stay open
-alcove lights start out pitch black, fade up to 100, and stay there
-door opening and light timing are synced
-alcove gadgets are controlled by a separate light that starts flickery lit, and slowly goes flickery dark a few seconds after you try to leave. trust me, it looks natural :-) having the glass in front also helps make the different lighting states blend smoothly and make the alcove look more technoweird.

this is a massive improvement on the alcove since a few revisions ago, when it would spastically open and shut and light and darken endlessly and out of sync.

also removed one of the ambush juggs, and spread out the ambush troopers a little. ambush hunters will teleport out if they can't find you.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 2nd '18, 18:22

A couple issues I noticed in “Déjà Vu All Over Again”:

  1. The compiler on polygon 284 (object index 174) doesn’t wake up.

  2. For some reason, the player can get stuck on that chair, apparently. I’m not sure why, but it probably has something to do with the way the polygons are drawn.

Will try to sort out remaining issues with “Run, Coward” fairly soon, but this week is gonna be finals week, so it’s gonna be rough.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 2nd '18, 19:40

I am happy to say that I finally finished playing the entire scenario for the first time. Aaron asked me to give feedback on Chapters 4 and 5. Below is a summary of any comments I have for each level. Forgive the long post.

Chapter 4:

31. Pfhor far Lamm: Very challenging level and fun to play. No complaints.

32. The Incredible Hulk: I actually had to use ammo on this level with the three initial Hulks. It’s possible to punch at them until one berserks. But even I don’t have that much patience. Still, a great level to play. Very long and very challenging. But one I look forward to playing again.

33. Babylon X: Another fun and challenging level to play. Don’t really like the many annoying Hummers though. Always in your face. But it’s nothing I can’t live with. The only complaint I had was minor. As far as I can tell, once you jump off the initial two long high ledges, there is no way to get back on top of those. Is there? The only reason I ask is there are two Hulks guarding those ledges at the beginning. Defeating all other nearby enemies is easy with Fists. But those two Hulks take time with Fists. At some point as you move along the ledge chasing the Hulk, you will draw attention from the Juggernaut. At that point, it is impossible to finish defeating the two Hulks with Fists since the Juggernaut starts attacking. So I wish there was a way to return to the top of those ledges, perhaps from the green slime later in the level. That way I can return and finish off the Hulks with Fists.

34. Dread Not: Very challenging level and fun to play. No complaints.

35: Bug-Eyed in Space: Very challenging and fun level to play. One of the hardest openings in Eternal. Once you get to the 3x recharger and PB, the level is much easier. But wow is that opening hard. No complaints though.

36: Run, Coward!: I know there are some changes planned for this level. But I like it the way it is. Yes, the lasers are tough and a nuisance. But it is balanced nicely with having several 3x rechargers. It’s certainly challenging and I suppose fun. I honestly had no complaints.

37: The Ensurance Trap: My approach is to get out of this level as fast as possible. No complaints.

38: Once More Unto the Breach: As with Bug-Eyed in Space, I always liked this level. Fun, long and challenging level.

39: Genie in a Bottle: For me, this was the hardest level in Chapter 4. Tough opening (given how I play). But also tough from start to finish. If I had a “desire”, it’s that the 2x rechargers were changed to 3x rechargers. This is mainly due to the numerous Enforcers that one has to deal with.

40: Floating in the Void: Just finish it in the usual way.

Chapter 5:

It’s no secret I was not looking forward to this chapter. But I was determined to give it a fair shake and trust that the changes made were enough to allow me to finish it. I am happy to say I was not disappointed.

41: Echoes in Eden: No complaints with this opening level. I had previously extensively “studied” it by first stripping it of all enemies and then carefully planning a well-orchestrated path to collect all the ammo. Once I officially played the level, it became a much easier level to complete. As seen below, I did the same with Deep Into the Grotto.

42: The Dead Live in the Catacombs: I had previously HATED this level. Although it is still a hard and challenging level, I don’t fear it anymore. That’s mainly due to understanding how the three enemies move and attack. My main choice of weapon on this level was the Pfhor Staff. I did have to use the Wave Motion Cannon a bit toward the end. This level is what I had hoped Chapter 5 would become on each level. There are no regenerating enemies. So once you kill an enemy, you know that is one less you have to worry about. Please do not change your mind and return to respawning the enemies. Leave it like it is. I know they respawn on most of the other levels. But the player needs a level every now and then where they don’t have to worry about regenerating enemies.

43: These Caves Can’t Be a Natural Formation: If there is one level in Chapter 5 I don’t particularly care for, it is this one. I am not really sure why. It could simply be that there are a couple of situations where 2x shields just don’t seem adequate enough to get you through. The first one that comes to mind is the section of the level in the south where you have the numerous Nightmares and you have to run along several high ledges. The other is when you first enter the square room toward the northeast. Otherwise, the level is fair and challenging. But it won’t be my favorite.

44: Deep Into the Grotto: As with Echoes in Eden, I copied this level separately, stripped it of its enemies and “studied” it extensively until I had a well crafted plan to get through it. Although it took me several tries, my plan worked. I can now finally say I finished Deep Into the Grotto. I must give a hearty “job well done” to the entire Eternal team. You have taken a level I dreaded to play and turned it into a level I no longer fear. I am almost tempted to play the Eternal 1.1 version just to see if I could finish it. Don’t get me wrong. It is still a hard level to play. You HAVE to be on your toes at all times. Having the enemies respawn at random locations was a smart move. The player cannot let up at any time. The only thing I should mention is that even after I have flipped all the necessary switches to lower the force field, every now and then, I can still get “shoved back”, as though I have not flipped them all. But I can then still cross over. So I know I have flipped them all. Any idea as to why that would be the case?

45: Frog Blast the Vent Core: No complaints with this level. Pretty routine. Not particularly hard. (I can’t believe I just said that about a Chapter 5 level!!)

46: I’ve Got a Bad Feeling About This: A fun and challenging level to play. No complaints.

47: The Philosophy of Time Travel: As with the Ensurance Trap, my approach is to get out of this level as fast as possible. No complaints. However, I did notice the Bobs on poly 696 and poly 720 are hovering in the air. Looks kinda comical.

48: This Message Will Self-Destruct: Wow! This is a long, hard challenging level to play. But I will always enjoy playing it. No complaints except for one annoying thing. Is there some secret to climbing from west to east over the rocks at polys 590-592? I can do it, but not consistently at all. Most of the time, I have no luck. And when I am able to climb over them, I am not exactly sure what I did to do it. Was the player never meant to climb over them? If the player was meant to climb over them, could you please adjust their height to make it a bit easier?

49: We Met Once in the Garden: Double wow! Another long, hard, challenging and fun level to play. For me, this was the hardest level in Chapter 5. I suppose it’s only fitting that it be this level. (This is not to diminish the next level.) This is one of those levels that you just don’t want to stop playing. Just like a good book you don’t want to put down.

50: Where Giants Have Fallen: Has this level always been like this? In any case, it is a short, but challenging level. I got very frustrated at one point because I could not figure out how to climb to the highest level. After watching Aaron’s vid film and seeing that it is possible, I finally noticed at one point, the player has two ways to leap across a certain void. If you leap left, you are doomed. What I should have been doing is leaping right. I had kept leaping to the left. So once I figured that out, I was able to finish the level.

51: The Near Side of Everywhere: This level is a nice respite from all the Nightmares, Banshees and Mothrids floating around in your mind after playing this chapter.

In summary, I have enjoyed playing the scenario immensely and look forward to the final product.

John
DrJohn

Post Dec 3rd '18, 12:53

Thanks for the detailed feedback.

The only level where I think I much disagree with anything you’ve written is “Run, Coward”. I’ve almost always found that level absolutely excruciating to play. I never found it very difficult, but I always felt like I only survived it through sheer luck, and that’s a completely unenjoyable experience to me. The only past revision I found at all enjoyable was the one where it was possible to kill some of the orbs and none of them regenerated, which I think is probably a sign that the orbs were still too powerful.

The latest revision has them a bit more like Rubicon’s drones, where they fire rather quickly, but their bark is worse than their bite. Additionally, the doors on the level are a lot faster. Finally, the closing segment is completely different. It now includes a segment of “Dread Not”. I’m going to need to revise that level slightly to add more continuity here as well.

I think I may have forgotten to texture one or two walls… whoops. Anyway I’ll post my latest revisions of a few levels in a moment.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 3rd '18, 13:22

And here we go. Things that have changed:

#15 & #36 – everything
#28 & #34 – map
Attachments
Map revisions 2018-12-03.zip
(872 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 3rd '18, 13:27

The Man wrote:Thanks for the detailed feedback.

The only level where I think I much disagree with anything you’ve written is “Run, Coward”. I’ve almost always found that level absolutely excruciating to play. I never found it very difficult, but I always felt like I only survived it through sheer luck, and that’s a completely unenjoyable experience to me. The only past revision I found at all enjoyable was the one where it was possible to kill some of the orbs and none of them regenerated, which I think is probably a sign that the orbs were still too powerful.

The latest revision has them a bit more like Rubicon’s drones, where they fire rather quickly, but their bark is worse than their bite. Additionally, the doors on the level are a lot faster. Finally, the closing segment is completely different. It now includes a segment of “Dread Not”. I’m going to need to revise that level slightly to add more continuity here as well.

I think I may have forgotten to texture one or two walls… whoops. Anyway I’ll post my latest revisions of a few levels in a moment.


Well the orbs reminded me of the laser turrets and the Maser Bobs from Rubicon. Not as deadly as them, but still powerful. Since I was able to survive those enemies in Rubicon, I didn't feel too overwhelmed by the orbs in Run Coward. Running from side to side through each room seemed to help to avoid some of their shots.

John
DrJohn

Post Dec 3rd '18, 13:31

They definitely have always reminded me of the maser turrets, too. They used to be about as powerful as the damn things, if you remember what they were like in 1.1. They’re nowhere near as difficult now; they fire more like Rubicon’s drones now. I find them… tolerable, which took a lot of modifications to the physics to pull off.

ETA: Film of revised “Run, Coward!”. Also filmed “Dread Not”, which I revised a bit to bring it in line with the new “Run, Coward!”, and “Unlucky Pfhor Some”, which I was just playing for the hell of it. Haven’t encoded “Unlucky” yet; will add a link here when it’s done.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 3rd '18, 20:43

DrJohn wrote:
44: Deep Into the Grotto: As with Echoes in Eden, I copied this level separately, stripped it of its enemies and “studied” it extensively until I had a well crafted plan to get through it. Although it took me several tries, my plan worked. I can now finally say I finished Deep Into the Grotto. I must give a hearty “job well done” to the entire Eternal team. You have taken a level I dreaded to play and turned it into a level I no longer fear. I am almost tempted to play the Eternal 1.1 version just to see if I could finish it.

John


Well my curiosity got the better of me. I just got through playing the Eternal 1.1 version of Deep Into the Grotto and was able to beat it. The plan I formulated for the beta 5 version went exactly as planned. It was not easy and took several tries. But I was able to succeed.
DrJohn

Post Dec 3rd '18, 21:16

I somewhat suspect that level is actually really easy once you learn the right path through it. Oddly, in 1.1 it's actually only necessary to deactivate two computer banks in order to complete the level. The northwestern one is the second; the first is that weird set of banks in the southeastern quadrant that you wander through on the way to a second set. TBCR has a kindergarten speedrun that takes about two minutes and sixteen seconds. I suspect I could do the 1.1 version in about three or four minutes on TC were I so inclined, though I haven't tried.

Note that, as 1.2 now requires deactivation of all the computer banks, there's now a secret that enables the player to deactivate five of them remotely, since otherwise the level would probably take at least three minutes longer to run, and we've already added enough time to the game (i.e., at least ninety minutes on Kindergarten and who knows what on TC; no one has been insane enough to speedrun the whole game on TC yet) by removing the "Perchance" skip, which literally cut out all of chapters two through five from an any% run. (As a result, 1.1 only takes about seventeen minutes to run on Kindergarten; it probably would take no more than thirty on TC.) The secret ensures that, although the route is now vastly different, it's possible to run this level in about the same amount of time.

I'm half pondering adding a weird terminal message to the "Grotto" secret indicating that the player alone has the authorisation to deactivate most of those banks, but that depends on Pfhorrest's reaction to the idea and whether I have time to write it.

Anyway, it's one of my favourite 1.2 levels. I might try doing a speedrun of it on 1.1, just to see how quickly I can get it. It's definitely not as hard as it seems at first glance; the difficulty is mostly in learning the layout of the level and figuring out the mission, I think.

ETA: Here’s “Unlucky Pfhor Some”, BTW.

…Did “My Kingdom Pfhor a Horse” fists only. Will post video tomorrow; it was very long and will probably take another hour to encode. One thing I noticed was that there is a Nightmare on polygon 551. I assume that’s meant to be a Bob of some sort.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 4th '18, 04:40

The Man wrote:Note that, as 1.2 now requires deactivation of all the computer banks, there's now a secret that enables the player to deactivate five of them remotely, since otherwise the level would probably take at least three minutes longer to run, and we've already added enough time to the game... The secret ensures that, although the route is now vastly different, it's possible to run this level in about the same amount of time.


About that. It's not very well hidden, you just tab a wall at the end of a dead-end cave. For a secret like that I think it ought to involve a grenade jump or at least a less conspicuous access. Create some opposition, like by setting the room's polys to normal and having a way for the Wrkncacnter to follow you. I don't understand the appeal behind skipping content and... avoiding minor differences in completion times? at all, but, it's not my project.

That said, I love the other one you added. Very clever, using waterfalls to mask sound like that. I'd be in favour of putting that inside texture on the outside of the door so more people find it :-) After all, it's not like the 3x will last long, and the Wrkncacnter can see invisible players...
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 4th '18, 05:58

I actually agree that the northwestern secret is probably too easy to access right now, but I’m not entirely sure how to fix that without making it so convoluted that it doesn’t actually save much/any time to use it. Making the W’rk monsters able to follow you would probably result in them opening the door and thereby revealing it to players who wouldn’t otherwise know it was there. I suppose I could make it so the door is only openable by players, but stays open afterward and the W’rk will follow you afterward. Though if I follow your advice of requiring a grenade jump, maybe the door wouldn’t even be necessary.

I was actually intending for the ambient sounds to serve as the hint that there was something there in the southwestern corner, but perhaps I should add another sound closer to the door. On the whole I tend to use ambient sounds as my clue that there’s a secret to be found; “Echoes of Eden” is probably the quintessential example.

Anyway, thanks; glad you liked that one.

“My Kingdom Pfhor a Horse” (fists only)

Note that there’s a Nightmare on polygon 551, which I assume is supposed to be some kind of Bob.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 4th '18, 06:43

If I were putting in something like this, I'd have a small alcove you have GJ to, and then a secret door in the alcove. To me, there's something satisfying about finding stuff like that.

To avoid the Wrkncacnter opening the door, you could set it up with two polygons. The first half is one-shot player openable, and it simultaneously opens the second half, a normal door.

I'd do it myself, but finals are next week and I shouldn't even be posting here nevermind Welanding.
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 5th '18, 02:02

Good idea on the double door. Hopefully I’ll have time to look at that this weekend, plus a bunch of other changes I still want to make to various levels.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 5th '18, 08:42

tonight, after merging in the latest of the files aaron posted here, i playtested the back half of chapter 4, from bug-eyed in space back around through dread not and then on through the end. i fixed a bunch of little bugs along the way, mostly tons and tons of misaligned textures all over the place. dread not still needs more work on that front but as the branch level i'll be retesting it tomorrow and catch up on those there.

i found the updated Run Coward fun to play and enjoyed the mechanism of destructible and regenerating and less-damaging but faster-firing orbs. I thought that their rate of fire could stand to be increased given how little damage they do, so I made that change and distributed the updated physics across the whole scenario.

everything is up on git now. please note that i've pretty much been completely forgetting to sign and date maps as i work on them because i'm just in such an overworked rush all the time lately, so always make sure you grab the latest distro off git before you start working on anything yourselves please.

tomorrow i check the first half of chapter 4. next week will be chapter 3, then 2 the week after that, and 1 after christmas.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 5th '18, 08:49

Glad that worked out well. Probably a good call on the increased firing rate. The new version wasn’t really very challenging; however, it had a lot less of the fake difficulty that I felt plagued previous versions so it’s probably fine.

By the way, since I’m thinking about it, the folders I uploaded had an extraneous zip file that I forgot to delete. I think it was either “Run, Coward” or “Killing the Giants as They Sleep”. Feel free to remove it.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 5th '18, 17:24

It was "killing the giants", and I removed it already. Thanks!
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 6th '18, 06:59

tonight i playtested the first half of chapter 4, and most of it was pretty good with only minor fixes, but my fucking god Dread Not was an enormous pain in the ass that sucked up my entire night again

copypastad git summary because im tired and lazy:

texture alignment, tons and tons of it on Dread Not, and the parts of
that copied to Run Coward, with accompanying geometry adjustments to
make it even possible; also distributed aaron’s orb fusion shots which
i forgot to do before; and fixed a bunch of recurring grammar errors
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 6th '18, 22:29

planning to work on shapes this weekend: wall cleanup, mothrid hitboxes(?), wraith HD shapes(?)
did you need me to go over any mapping?
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 7th '18, 01:48

Thanks!

I'm still thinking no on the Wraiths personally, though if there's a lot of support from them from elsewhere I'd be okay with them. I just asked on Discord for comments, since nobody really replied here.

I would still love to see black Skitters, if you feel like giving that a go; they're most in line with my original idea for "invisible devlins".

Failing that, yes please feel free to adjust the Mothrid hitboxes however you think makes them better.


Quick tangent, I had a random Shapes idea earlier this week that seems like it might be right up your alley, if you feel like playing around with it; it's not really important if not. I was thinking about how the Pfhor look the same in every time period, and how that's a little unrealistic, and thinking maybe they should have more CLUTs and change color in different time periods? Currently their CLUTs are clustered around Eternal's four primary hues of orange (30), green (120), azure (210), and magenta (300). I was thinking of adding the red (0), yellow (60), cyan (180), and blue (240) to the CLUT options, and then maybe shifting everything things toward the orange side for chapter 3 chapter (so green would become yellow and magenta would become red), then the other direction for chapter 4 (so green would become cyan and magenta would become blue). It'd kinda be neat to have them different in every chapter, matching that chapter's color scheme, but upon reflection I realize that chapters 1 and 2 and the Pfhorish part of chapter 5 are all reasonably close to each other in time so the Pfhor really wouldn't look different between them. Anyway, that's just a random thought if you feel like playing with it.

(Alternately, instead of yellow, cyan, blue, and red, we could use chartreuse (90), spring (150), purple (270), and rose (330), so that the changes are less drastic, and the greens stay more greenish and the magentas stay magenta-ish. Not sure which option would be better; I'm kinda leaning toward the first).


I don't have any specific mapping tasks in mind that I need help with, but if you wanted to playtest chapter 4 and 5 (the latest versions off of git), just to confirm that they really do still work after the changes that have happened since I ran through them, and if you feel like it fix any little problems you might see along the way, I wouldn't object to that! :)

EDIT: actually thought of some specific things. There's still that weird Banshee behavior upstairs on Echoes of Eden. If you're able to figure that out, that'd be awesome. Also, John Sumner posted his reviews of chapters 4 and 5 a little bit upthread, and if you want to address any of his complaints, feel free.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 7th '18, 01:55

I'd also be fine with you implementing some/most of your proposed changes to Mohicans. If I can't stand a given change, I can always revert it/alter it further.

I'm fine with changing Mothrids in some way but relatively undecided on which proposal I like most. The current implementation certainly seems incongruous with the Banshees and Nightmares, though.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 7th '18, 02:33

I'll see if I have time to do skitters. Not as easy to fill in missing animation frames for them as the Wraiths, but they'd still be 1000% better than the giant pixelated mothrids.

Similar to the skitters- and having more animation frames to work with - remember these guys from the Marathon Alpha?
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seq000-0.gif (15.08 KiB) Viewed 491 times


I'll certianly add more Pfhor CLUTs! Personally I'm partial to chartreuse (90), spring (150), purple (270), and rose (330).
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ravenshining
Hawai'i

Post Dec 7th '18, 05:31

Those things (which in my headcanon are the Chockiesens mentioned in the M1 manual, indigenous life to Tau Ceti) would be fine replacement for the Skitters, if you want!

And go ahead with that color selection for the Pfhor CLUTs if that's your preference. Would you mind also making the physics to assign those CLUTs on the appropriate levels and sending me a PR?

Thanks again!
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 7th '18, 06:40

Tonight I went over the set 2 / chapter 3 / S'pht / Lh'owon textures and fixed a bunch of little bugs and other things that have been bugging me about them.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 7th '18, 15:17

+1 for the M1 alpha monsters, who seem particularly appropriate since they're from the step between Pathways and Marathon. The art style definitely fits, too.

I like the idea of adding more palettes for the Pfhor, but I'd suggest that the major variants should probably have the darker colours, just to make things less confusing for everyone. And I'd specifically give the purple shade to major Fighters and Troopers. Not sure about the chartreuse and spring variants. Perhaps chartreuse to minor Fighters and Troopers, rose to minor projectile Fighters, and spring to major projectile Fighters, but I'll have to see them before saying for certain.

I should note that for Chronicles, I went with (I think) chartreuse for minor Fighters (it's honestly been so long since I last saw one that I can't say for sure), dark green for major ones, cyan to minor projectile Fighters, dark cyan for major ones. These were all based off the original game's colour tables; I can get the exact values if needed. Might be relevant if we want to maintain some continuity between the scenarios, though those palettes are used in the original games' future rather than their past.

And of course, Rubicon had new colours for the Pfhor as well. I can never remember those. And that was also set after the original games.

Should the Hunters and Enforcers also get new colours while we're at it? And now that I'm thinking about it, the Lh'owon chapter spans a thousand years. Maybe the F'lickta and Ticks should change a bit over the time skip, to emphasize the evolution we've gone with in their backstory.
People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
User avatar

The Man
Sarasota, FL

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