Anyone else see that Destiny "thetis brave" lore entry

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Anyone else see that Destiny "thetis brave" lore entry

Post Dec 21st '18, 03:21

It's pretty neat stuff (For those interested in the destiny story, fragmentary as it may be.) Looks like Bungie are actually running with the whole crossover thing.

Text can be found here:https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/thetis-brave

The obvious thing to note is how "Medusa" claims to be the one who summoned K'lia back to L'howon, so by the M∞ timeline, they'd be the Thoth-Durandal hybrid. The writing, however, is strikingly reminiscent of Leela's reports before she was overwhelmed by the s'pht. The philosophical rambling screams "t-r-o-u-b-l-e" to me though

Anyway, I think this is pretty cool.
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General Tacticus

Post Dec 21st '18, 04:05

Cool find, thanks for sharing it!

Without knowing much of anything about Destiny's story, that link's mention of a "Ghost" made me think of my interpretation of the Cybernetic Junction as a "surrogate soul". Someone who's played Destiny can probably tell me how I'm completely off in my understanding of that mention, though.
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 21st '18, 04:32

Actually the comparison is pretty on point.

A ghost in Destiny pretty much a small autonomous AI drone that acts as an external junction. When the player is killed, they revive them by scanning adjacent timelines (where you might still be alive) and use that data to reconstruct a body to upload the player's mind into.
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General Tacticus

Post Dec 21st '18, 06:09

I didn't buy Destiny 2 after the negative reviews, but I was brought to the attention of a different grimoire entry referencing Marathon.

Strauss is gone. Whole sky alight as his ship set off. I might be the last MIDA survivor on Mars. The gun detected teleports yesterday and I had to move camp. Cannot shake the fear that they will send battleroids; even this AI marvel couldn't save me.

Shot the ice this morning. The gun fired a thermal round and then a pellet of water purifier. Came out pure and sweet. Marvelous. I've been reading the gun's Encyclopedia Arcana. All about the crash that became Strauss's obsession and hope. “Metastability in the salvaged construct!” Ha ha! Let's hope our ideals too can pass through grief, fury, and envy into a new freedom elsewhere.

Wonder if the gun heard me when I asked to go somewhere better. Wonder why it led me here. Going to follow its compass tonight. Down below

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entri ... -mini-tool

Unfortunately you can see Deimos in-game, implying the Marathon was never built. Soooooo make of that what you will
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Flowers

Post Dec 21st '18, 08:56

Flowers wrote:Unfortunately you can see Deimos in-game, implying the Marathon was never built. Soooooo make of that what you will


Yeah, the explanation for that is in another entry on the MIDA scout rifle:
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/mida-multi-tool

tldr: Marathon and Destiny take place in alternate timelines (stuff is pretty much the same for both earths until the 2010's or so when the traveler showed up) and some "things" have moved between the two worlds via unknown means.

If my order of events is correct, Destiny's current story takes place over 900 years later than the events of M1. This assumes that the gun was found before the big collapse, and it wasn't sitting in a crater for 300 years beforehand.

As an aside: Yeah, Destiny 2 has been pretty rough for a lot of players. I'd say that if you can find a good "groove" it is very fun, otherwise it gets old real fast. Thankfully I am fairly easy to please and have a short attention span! [MTongue]
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General Tacticus

Post Dec 21st '18, 14:35

I'd read a bit about Medusa but didn't know that she mentioned K'lia. :D To my knowledge, Medusa is something called a "Craftmind" (an AI in the vein of Warminds like Rasputin), so I'm not sure if she's meant to be Thothandal. Interesting that she seems to have taken a jaunt into the Marathon side of the multiverse, though...
welcome to the scene of the crash
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General-RADIX

Post Dec 21st '18, 16:02

General Tacticus wrote:If my order of events is correct, Destiny's current story takes place over 900 years later than the events of M1.

I remember watching some Youtube video that said Destiny takes place circa 2900. I don't remember what video it was, and I don't think they had any proof of such claim. As far as I know, there's no evidence for what year it is, but I very well could be wrong.
tldr: Marathon and Destiny take place in alternate timelines (stuff is pretty much the same for both earths until the 2010's or so when the traveler showed up) and some "things" have moved between the two worlds via unknown means.

I assume if you're into Destiny lore, you've probably read the Book of Sorrow from TTK. There's a key mention of how Vex scour through every timeline in search of finding a timeline where they are basically Gods (I think this is explored in the Osiris DLC in Destiny 2 but I wouldn't know). Very reminiscent of how the player character must find a timeline where you become victorious in Infinity.
As an aside: Yeah, Destiny 2 has been pretty rough for a lot of players. I'd say that if you can find a good "groove" it is very fun, otherwise it gets old real fast. Thankfully I am fairly easy to please and have a short attention span!

I actually really liked Destiny after The Taken King, and I think it was in a great spot with Rise of iron. I enjoyed the base mechanics enough to play Destiny from Day 1 every day. But when I heard things about Destiny 2 such as downgrading how shaders work (one time use, only applies to one armor piece) and further pushing microtransactions, I decided not to get it. I have heard good things about Forsaken though, so perhaps I'll pick it up one day.
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Flowers

Post Dec 21st '18, 18:44

So in Destiny, is the ability to cross timelines just a commonplace thing that's present all over the place? Given Tacticus' discussion of Ghosts above, and the implication that any time any of the (presumably very many) player characters die, their little gizmo just peeks into a next-door timeline and grabs a copy of them like it's nothing. And how things bleeding between the Marathon timeline(s) and Destiny's timeline(s?) seems to be... not a big deal to the people in Destiny's story, from what I've seen?

Also, if they're in the same multiverse and the timelines are pretty much the same up through the 2010s as someone said upstream, then all of the bigger Marathon universe stuff that already existed out there well prior to the 2010s, like the Jjaro and the W'rkncacnter and the Pfhor and the S'pht and (remnants of the) Nakh and the Drinniol and Nar and Vylae and Nebulons and so on, should still be out there in the broader universe? Does Destiny just take place in and around Sol, and not really visit its broader universe where presumably that stuff would be encountered?
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 21st '18, 22:52

Pfhorrest wrote:So in Destiny, is the ability to cross timelines just a commonplace thing that's present all over the place?

Well, of the four alien enemy factions you fight in-game, only one of them has the ability to leap through time, which is The Vex, a faction of enigmatic robots. Another group, The Hive, can create pocket dimensions but as far as I know they can't actually traverse timelines in the same way The Vex can. So time manipulation is common but it's not well understood. Then again I haven't really played Destiny 2 so my information on the lore may be out of date.

Also, if they're in the same multiverse and the timelines are pretty much the same up through the 2010s as someone said upstream, then all of the bigger Marathon universe stuff that already existed out there well prior to the 2010s, like the Jjaro and the W'rkncacnter and the Pfhor and the S'pht and (remnants of the) Nakh and the Drinniol and Nar and Vylae and Nebulons and so on, should still be out there in the broader universe? Does Destiny just take place in and around Sol, and not really visit its broader universe where presumably that stuff would be encountered?

Unfortunately, many of those species may be extinct. The reason for this is that the aforementioned Hive went around the galaxy genociding anyone they came across, and this campaign of genocide lasted for millions of years IIRC. The Nar, Pfhor, Spht, etc may all be dead, or perhaps they were never encountered and are still alive. There's a great series of short writings, fifty in total, that make up "The Book of Sorrow". If you're intrigued by Destiny lore, I really urge you to read it, even if you haven't played any of the games. It contains some of Bungie's best writing in a long time.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/categ ... -of-sorrow
And there's even a subtle nod to our good friend the W'rkncacnter on book 41
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards ... -of-sorrow
"Oryx went down into his throne world. He went out into the abyss, and with each step he read one of his tablets, so that they became like stones beneath his feet.

He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying:

I can see you in the sky. You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you.

And it arrived, the Deep Itself."
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Flowers

Post Dec 21st '18, 23:33

That’s fascinating. I wonder if the Gheritt White terminal is supposed to tie in with any of this. You know?

He escaped into the waves.

The waves.

Plus all the musings about schoolyard brawls and how everyone has wished someone else dead at some point.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Fool's Gold · Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
Sarasota, FL

Post Dec 21st '18, 23:52

The Man wrote:That’s fascinating. I wonder if the Gheritt White terminal is supposed to tie in with any of this. You know?

He escaped into the waves.

The waves.

Plus all the musings about schoolyard brawls and how everyone has wished someone else dead at some point.

Fun subtlety I've often wondered if anyone ever noticed: in the Eternal end (credits) screen, the player-character is facing away from the camera, toward a wavey astral ocean scape, as he if he walking out into the waves. (Escape has made him god).
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Pfhorrest
California

Post Dec 22nd '18, 01:32

The Man wrote:That’s fascinating. I wonder if the Gheritt White terminal is supposed to tie in with any of this. You know?.

It possibly could, but it all depends on what your interpretation of the Gheritt White terminal means. It's interesting to note that the Hive's central philosophy and religion is called "Sword Logic". The central tenet of the Sword Logic is that "existence is the struggle to exist," and that any entity - whether a life-form or a fundamental aspect of nature - which cannot protect itself against defeat should rightfully be destroyed by a more powerful entity. In the context of intelligent beings, the Logic promotes as its ultimate goal the establishment of a systematic, self-proving civilizational structure which can survive until the end of time. Consider it a social-Darwinism of sorts but on a grand level.

Is it a stretch to liken the Sword Logic philosophy to White's rants on schoolyard bullying, imaginary murder and the death of a simple rat? Absolutely. Is it also fun to speculate? For me it is.
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Flowers

Post Dec 22nd '18, 06:38

For convenience, here's the part where the s'pht legend mentions the waves, describing the struggle between the Jjarro and W'rkncacnter:
In primordial space, timeless creatures made waves.
These waves created us and the others.
Waves were the battles, and the battles were waves.

(Terminal 4, Six Thousand Feet Under, Marathon 2)

Also, in Pathways into Darkness there is an unidentified dead german who, when asked about the Dreaming God says:
You know. I can't say. He who rises with the tides, master of all things small and insignificant.

When you ask about the tides are he says:
Not the tides, fool! Don't you understand?


Rasputin (the powerful, human-made "Warmind" AI in the game) has logs that often refer to a protocol called "CARRHAE WHITE" which seems to have something to do with self preservation.

I wonder if in Destiny "the waves" are symbolic of violent conflict that propagates through living systems.

The "C.White" thing might then be analogous to the original "White" story, where the subject becomes part of "the waves" in order to escape torment/captivity/destruction.
- Alternately, the name substitution could imply that this subject is different, refusing to surrender themselves to the violence (or whatever it is the waves represent) resulting in a different meaning.
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General Tacticus


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