Marathon Remake

[Major Pedro]

I'm back, hello.

I reckon Rubicon was awesome too.

Related to the Pfhor, I think it's probably a good idea to think about why a technologically advanced race like the Pfhor would bother with slaving.

Humans at the time the Pfhor attacked weren't just unskilled labour- we are one of the most advanced races in the galaxy. Remember that all Pfhor technology is stolen, right? We are technologically superior to them. They would gain so much knowledge by controlling us.

To change the topic, I can't run a program called VTFEdit, which I need, to convert some high res .tga's into Valve texture format. Could someone on windows look into it for me?

Here are the links you'll need, if you're feeling generous.

VTF Photoshop Plugin

VTFEdit

The M1A1 Lava Targa textures I need converting. It's a large file, 51 MB.

Thanks guys

[uescsuperhuman]

I'm back, hello.

I reckon Rubicon was awesome too.



Humans at the time the Pfhor attacked weren't just unskilled labour- we are one of the most advanced races in the galaxy. Remember that all Pfhor technology is stolen, right? We are technologically superior to them. They would gain so much knowledge by controlling us.

To change the topic, I can't run a program called VTFEdit, which I need, to convert some high res .tga's into Valve texture format. Could someone on windows look into it for me?

Here are the links you'll need, if you're feeling generous.

VTF Photoshop Plugin

VTFEdit

The M1A1 Lava Targa textures I need converting. It's a large file, 51 MB.

Thanks guys

Is it a windows program? Because if it is it might not work. I'll try dlling it.

[Major Pedro]

Is it a windows program? Because if it is it might not work. I'll try dlling it.

Yeah, it is, which is why it won't work on my mac. The plugin for Photoshop will work with CS2, but I have CS4, so no joy again.

Also here is my attempt to recreate an M1 map, using BGE instead of source. Only spent half an hour, so it looks real shite.

[Paracelsur]

If the multiplayer map turns out well, might I suggest part of the Pfhor ship as the next sandbox for mapping and gameplay techniques? The lower gravity would make it necessary to experiment with details like weapon recoil (perhaps the TOZT can be a straight-out jetpack) and the absence of terminals gives you a lot of leeway in terms of the structure of the levels.

[WailofSuicide]

Humans at the time the Pfhor attacked weren't just unskilled labour- we are one of the most advanced races in the galaxy. Remember that all Pfhor technology is stolen, right? We are technologically superior to them. They would gain so much knowledge by controlling us.

I know that the Pfhor are using stolen technology, but that doesn't really tell us all that much. I think it's fairly strongly implied that they at least understand the technology they have to the extent that they can repair and duplicate it (unless we're to assume that every piece of Pfhor technology is part of some stolen cache -- Not very likely considering they've got plural Battle Fleets, unless the Jjaro left them parking lots full of used cars), and most likely find new applications for it.

I think it's reasonable to assume that humans were one of the most advanced races in some ways, sure. But we're not talking about the Nar attacking the Marathon for spare technology, we're talking about the Pfhor, a race which has FTL travel, communication, and cybernetics/bioengineering, not to mention whatever power sources that allow Durandal to go hopping around for hundreds of years. Even if humans are more advanced than the Flickta, the Pfhor are still obviously quite a bit more advanced [even if it is stolen tech]. Things like manual labor don't seem like a problem if you can just engineer some cyborgs/androids to do the work for you.

This is why I think it makes more sense for the Pfhor to be going after AI technology. They do not seem to have developed much in this direction. It's conceivable they could enslave some of the important human technicians and scientists in the way they do with the Spht, but presumably the vast majority of humans on the station are not involved in that kind of research, they're just kind of incidental.

[Major Pedro]

wall of text

Yeah, you have lots of points there, although by the end of M1 we get their jump drive, and somewhere around infinity we have fleets of our own. I'm sure human technology on Earth advanced miles in the 300 years the Marathon was off- the Marathon wouldn't have had the resources to advance. It is shown in the story that human AI is more advanced than the Pfhor's- plus, I'm sure the Pfhor would love to get their hands on one of our cybernetic junctions.

[uescsuperhuman]

that doesn't look bad at first major. Eventually I will also wanna put crevices into the walls instead of the crevices being on the texture but that is fine.


I tried VTF edit and got it working last night. Since we won't be done by sunday I'll try and get all the textures and the summary of what we talked about instead of mapping. I will have to run the summary by synthninja first then I will email it to you.

[infestedsmith]

Yeah, a friend of mine was so excited when Halo was in the works. I was so disappointed when it came out. All my college roommates were like "This rules!" and I was just shaking my head.

Does anyone know what engine was being used to make Metroid Prime: Echoes?

People who dislike Halo because it's not Marathon are highly close minded. I'm glad Bungie didn't make Halo be another Marathon, and I'm glad it was released on the Xbox. It gave the Xbox product the life it needed, even more so with the release of Halo 3, who's matchmaking system rivals anything on PC.

Not that there is anything wrong with a PC, I enjoy Mac and PC games a lot, especially the old Fallout games, Marathon, Starcraft and Diablo. I'm looking forward to Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2. But I still like Halo on the console more.

[treellama]

People who dislike Halo because it's not Marathon are highly close minded.

He didn't say he didn't like it because it wasn't Marathon. He laments Bungie having lost what it had when it made Marathon. Contrast Duality and Halo: one was on its way to being a fantastic FPS with a great story, innovative level design, on a platform with sane controls where shooters don't feel like a total hack. The other was Halo.

[CryoS]

Also here is my attempt to recreate an M1 map, using BGE instead of source. Only spent half an hour, so it looks real shite.
*pic*

would you mind showing me that weapon from the side and stuff? id like to see how it looks
you can PM me it or email me it, doesnt matter...

[L'howon]

People who dislike Halo because it's not Marathon are highly close minded. I'm glad Bungie didn't make Halo be another Marathon, and I'm glad it was released on the Xbox. It gave the Xbox product the life it needed, even more so with the release of Halo 3, who's matchmaking system rivals anything on PC.

Not that there is anything wrong with a PC, I enjoy Mac and PC games a lot, especially the old Fallout games, Marathon, Starcraft and Diablo. I'm looking forward to Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2. But I still like Halo on the console more.

"What makes you think she's a witch?"
"Well, she turned me into a newt!"
"A newt?"
"... I got better."
"Crowd: Burn her anyway!"

[goran]

I know that the Pfhor are using stolen technology, but that doesn't really tell us all that much. I think it's fairly strongly implied that they at least understand the technology they have to the extent that they can repair and duplicate it (unless we're to assume that every piece of Pfhor technology is part of some stolen cache -- Not very likely considering they've got plural Battle Fleets, unless the Jjaro left them parking lots full of used cars), and most likely find new applications for it.

I think it's reasonable to assume that humans were one of the most advanced races in some ways, sure. But we're not talking about the Nar attacking the Marathon for spare technology, we're talking about the Pfhor, a race which has FTL travel, communication, and cybernetics/bioengineering, not to mention whatever power sources that allow Durandal to go hopping around for hundreds of years. Even if humans are more advanced than the Flickta, the Pfhor are still obviously quite a bit more advanced [even if it is stolen tech]. Things like manual labor don't seem like a problem if you can just engineer some cyborgs/androids to do the work for you.

This is why I think it makes more sense for the Pfhor to be going after AI technology. They do not seem to have developed much in this direction. It's conceivable they could enslave some of the important human technicians and scientists in the way they do with the Spht, but presumably the vast majority of humans on the station are not involved in that kind of research, they're just kind of incidental.

It will make sense if you can explain how the pfhor came to know marathon had intelligent computers before attacking it. One may say that durandal communicated with the pfhor, that's how they became aware of the AI-tech. I find this hard to believe since it's extremely hard if not impossible to percieve the physical body of one who sends you a message. Secondly how can the pfhor and humans communicate anything to each other when they don't know each others languages.

I say at most, durandal sent them a message they couldn't understand. The message helped the pfhor to track the ship and that's it. Out of curiosity they attacked marathon.

[L'howon]

It will make sense if you can explain how the pfhor came to know marathon had intelligent computers before attacking it. One may say that durandal communicated with the pfhor, that's how they became aware of the AI-tech. I find this hard to believe since it's extremely hard if not impossible to percieve the physical body of one who sends you a message. Secondly how can the pfhor and humans communicate anything to each other when they don't know each others languages.

I say at most, durandal sent them a message they couldn't understand. The message helped the pfhor to track the ship and that's it. Out of curiosity they attacked marathon.

How would it matter either way? Assuming Durandal simply made them aware of the location of Marathon, then Tycho was just an extra added bonus, or Durandal was attempting to dispose of either Leela or Tycho. If he did make the Pfhor aware of the AI's aboard Marathon, then they still came, and the human slaves were also an added benefit. Either way, no explanation is really needed for why they came, only what happened when they did.

On the matter of stolen tech, what's not to say that everything they have IS really stolen. They simply have adapted it to their needs/biology. The weapons and such may not look exactly the same but the underlying base technology of what makes them work may still exist as a large part of the weapon.

[infestedsmith]

He didn't say he didn't like it because it wasn't Marathon. He laments Bungie having lost what it had when it made Marathon. Contrast Duality and Halo: one was on its way to being a fantastic FPS with a great story, innovative level design, on a platform with sane controls where shooters don't feel like a total hack. The other was Halo.

"fantastic FPS with a great story, innovative level design, on a platform with sane controls where shooters don't feel like a total hack"

Just about sums up Halo 1/2/3 on Xbox in my opinion. Halo, especially Halo 3 is party centered, and there's no way in the world a PC could manage the same splitscreen/online combo games you get in Halo 3. I think Bungie went in the right direction. I would have preferred they not sellout to Microsoft, but a great game series came from it, so I'm not complaining too much.

Anyway, on topic. I would suggest to anyone seriously interested in making a Marathon remake to PLEASE consider the option of stand-alone platforms. Yes, it's nice to have the core all setup for you in either HL2, or UT, or whatever, but it's very disappointing to not be able to play a game, because it's a mod of another. Mods are nice, but I don't believe they are the way forward for Marathon.

Marathon: Freedom is a great example of a very fun stand-alone Marathon game with an innovative concept. I hope other people imitate his ideas, and go for stand-alone.

[treellama]

Just about sums up Halo 1/2/3 on Xbox in my opinion. Halo, especially Halo 3 is party centered, and there's no way in the world a PC could manage the same splitscreen/online combo games you get in Halo 3. I think Bungie went in the right direction. I would have preferred they not sellout to Microsoft, but a great game series came from it, so I'm not complaining too much.

Oh, sure, if you just want to screw around and have fun with friends for a few hours, consoles (and Halo) are OK.

You can't, of course, compare that in any way to Marathon and the deep story discussions, innumerable third party scenarios and net maps, tributary music and artwork, ports to other platforms (and even new engines), etc., that it generated--which I think was the guy's point. He was expecting something as enriching as Marathon, not merely passable console entertainment, made successful mainly by money and marketing.

That said, it sets the bar pretty high for a "Marathon Remake"--from the lack of understanding of the original games I've seen so far in this thread, I have to wonder if this isn't just a big joke. You guys don't even know the original series well enough to understand why you can use Pfhor chargers, or Durandal's motivation for calling the Pfhor to the Marathon. How the heck are you going to remake something you don't even get.

[uescsuperhuman]

Oh, sure, if you just want to screw around and have fun with friends for a few hours, consoles (and Halo) are OK.

You can't, of course, compare that in any way to Marathon and the deep story discussions, innumerable third party scenarios and net maps, tributary music and artwork, ports to other platforms (and even new engines), etc., that it generated--which I think was the guy's point. He was expecting something as enriching as Marathon, not merely passable console entertainment, made successful mainly by money and marketing.

That said, it sets the bar pretty high for a "Marathon Remake"--from the lack of understanding of the original games I've seen so far in this thread, I have to wonder if this isn't just a big joke. You guys don't even know the original series well enough to understand why you can use Pfhor chargers, or Durandal's motivation for calling the Pfhor to the Marathon. How the heck are you going to remake something you don't even get.

Well then we need to completely read the entire story page before we get into making the story area of our game (we are currently tackling mp only).

I really don't think you guys should be arguing about Halo. It's someones opinion if they like Halo. Synth does not like Halo and I do, but we have no conflict over such matters, for example.

[infestedsmith]

Oh, sure, if you just want to screw around and have fun with friends for a few hours, consoles (and Halo) are OK.

You can't, of course, compare that in any way to Marathon and the deep story discussions, innumerable third party scenarios and net maps, tributary music and artwork, ports to other platforms (and even new engines), etc., that it generated--which I think was the guy's point. He was expecting something as enriching as Marathon, not merely passable console entertainment, made successful mainly by money and marketing.

That said, it sets the bar pretty high for a "Marathon Remake"--from the lack of understanding of the original games I've seen so far in this thread, I have to wonder if this isn't just a big joke. You guys don't even know the original series well enough to understand why you can use Pfhor chargers, or Durandal's motivation for calling the Pfhor to the Marathon. How the heck are you going to remake something you don't even get.

The Halo series isn't about the story, (though it's not a bad story), I doubt many people would argue that. The charm of the Halo games is in the gameplay, and multiplayer. One of the primary reasons Marathon gets ported so much is because it is so old. People, including myself, feel the need to bring Marathon up to date, and put it's gameplay and art out there in other engines. Halo has no such need, as it started out as a fully 3D fairly modern FPS game. Doing the same with Halo 1 would be a complete waste of time.
As for netmaps, you should know that mod content of that kind is mostly impossible on consoles, though Bungie tries hard with their Forge and Forgeable maps ideas. Works fine with me though, I have seen amazingly innovative and extremely fun ideas built in Forge, that rival most netmaps I've played for the Marathon series.

Halo isn't "passable console entertainment". You don't get 350,000 people online all the time from passable console entertainment, people play that much MP because they like it! Halo 3 is revolutionary in online gameplay, multiplayer and partying, NO game has surpassed it in this regard, IMO. As to the idea that Halo is successful because of money and marketing. I think that's rather obvious, but of course only partly true. Halo is well known because of money and marketing, and tons of people play it, because it's fun!

Marathon is a great game, and a great series. I am glad people want to keep it going. However, I think most people have completely lost sight of just what makes Marathon fun.
The Marathon community is becoming bland, not because of Marathon, but rather because of the elitist, fowl-mouthed, immature people who pretend to run and own it, and the constant hostility and arrogance displayed in several members and groups.

Yeah I've been a here a while. I used to go on Hotline every day and chat with a lot of great people on hl.forerunners.org. I even had an infested.forerunners.org website. Then the Hotline channel disappeared. Then bit by bit, things starting going away, things like scenario news (used to love sending news to those guys), and the story forum. It's time to grow up people, play Marathon, make maps, whatever, but work with other games too. Once I finish Marathon: Infested, I'm going to stop making things like this about Marathon. You know why? It's not my own game or world. I'm just reusing a world that already exist. I want to make my own games, my own maps set in my story. I'll still play Marathon, I'll play Marthon: Nova when it's done, and play M: Freedom when it is finished. But I'm going to make my own games and ideas. A lot of you people could stand to do that as well.


My opinion, no more Marathon remakes!! Make your own games with your own stories, and maybe use the awesome idea of terminals to craft a deep and engrossing story? Hm?? Or maybe make some Marathon-esque games? Or something. Anything but a remake.

[treellama]

The Marathon community is becoming bland, not because of Marathon, but rather because of the elitist, fowl-mouthed, immature people who pretend to run and own it, and the constant hostility and arrogance displayed in several members and groups.

Well, I'm not exactly sure who you think pretends to own or run anything--maybe you're just a another victim of the doomsayers' propaganda--but, if it's who I think, it doesn't make sense to blame blandness on a bunch of people who aren't here any more. If anything, you would have to blame the new people--they're the community now.

My opinion, no more Marathon remakes!! Make your own games with your own stories, and maybe use the awesome idea of terminals to craft a deep and engrossing story? Hm?? Or maybe make some Marathon-esque games? Or something. Anything but a remake.

Hear hear!

[L'howon]

Well, I'm not exactly sure who you think pretends to own or run anything--maybe you're just a another victim of the doomsayers' propaganda--but, if it's who I think, it doesn't make sense to blame blandness on a bunch of people who aren't here any more. If anything, you would have to blame the new people--they're the community now.

Hear hear!

Nice CLIQUE dodge there TL.
I think I can voice his frustration a bit better (And with less birds), as I feel the same way sometimes.
I ranted on this a bit in the thread John Doe made a while back, so I'll paraphrase on it.

The whole issue is, at least as I see it, Halo games and such are just that: Multiplayer. There's a rather disturbing lack of games that can coherently fuse multiplayer fun (netgames), and a cohesive, fluid, well thought out storyline(Singleplayer). Marathon at the time of it's inception, and even really today, does a superb job with handling storyline and at the same time creates enjoyable and challenging gameplay. With Marathon's engine in the state of it is (Which is fine by me, I like the challenge it presents with maps. We seem to have gotten along fine without B&B.), it predicates easy access and a wide user base. While various viewpoints, all valid, assert various ideas on that matter it is my hope that one day a more accessible (and therefore modern) engine allows for Marathon to return to the gaming community at large. It has a lot to offer and it's unique storytelling method allows a depth of character that is hard to impart through voice acting. That lack of depth scourges a lot of games and Marathon has the ability to satiate a lot of story/character driven players thirst for more depth within games.

Take it or leave it, I'm fine with the community as is. There certainly is a need for more active members than current just because of the turnover rate of people, which leaves the community in a somewhat perilous state at times, but overall it's a fairly healthy one. I think some people (Like Infested, etc.) get frustrated when they see games making strident leaps forward, and a game that they devoted a lot of time, effort, and love to falling slowly farther behind the "curve".

[acks45]

not merely passable console entertainment, made successful mainly by money and marketing.

That said, it sets the bar pretty high for a "Marathon Remake"

firstline: like most modern games... even crysis, which i gawked at, and played the beginning level for like four hours( without reloading to get all the enemies back). my friend ws so psyched about turok, but that also was only made popular by marketing..... what a suck ass industry the gaming world has become.

second line: Thats why i told them not to call it marathon. or even attach marathons name to it. they should attempt to allude to it like bungie did when they made halo to microsoft's bidding and they were no longer intellectual owners of marathon.

Well then we need to completely read the entire story page before we get into making the story area of our game (we are currently tackling mp only).

i dont think reading the whole thing will make it work for you. if you read it you're likely just to cut out things you dont think are nesecary that someone else thinks is pinnacle.


also, the CLIQUE have been pretty nice to me when I've approached them for help( and not acted like an idiot).
I have been kicked a couple times from #A1 for no reason, but it's important to note that its not like i couldnt just rejoin the channel. minor inconvenience at best. stop whining. ( and stop using the pfhortipfhrown.)

[Major Pedro]

Stop the flame war, dangit! People are entitled to their own opinions, but should keep them to themselves.

The Marathon community is becoming bland, not because of Marathon, but rather because of the elitist, fowl-mouthed, immature people who pretend to run and own it, and the constant hostility and arrogance displayed in several members and groups.

No matter how hard you try, twelve year olds on the internet won't just get along. The CLIQUE have a few large holes in them now, so hopefully they'll just learn to get along with others.

It's true, Marathon is getting old. We won't remake it. We'll only allude to it.

Oh, sure, if you just want to screw around and have fun with friends for a few hours, consoles (and Halo) are OK.

Halo is one of the best game series ever made, in my opinion. Which I'm not forcing on anybody. #2 sucked though.

Non flame war project related stuff that should be the only thing in this thread

The gun isn't really complete, because I wasn't going to use it for anything. I can finish it if you like it.

Okay, I'll check my box. I didn't have time for bump maps...

[uescsuperhuman]

firstline: like most modern games... even crysis, which i gawked at, and played the beginning level for like four hours( without reloading to get all the enemies back). my friend ws so psyched about turok, but that also was only made popular by marketing..... what a suck ass industry the gaming world has become.

second line: Thats why i told them not to call it marathon. or even attach marathons name to it. they should attempt to allude to it like bungie did when they made halo to microsoft's bidding and they were no longer intellectual owners of marathon.

i dont think reading the whole thing will make it work for you. if you read it you're likely just to cut out things you dont think are nesecary that someone else thinks is pinnacle.


also, the CLIQUE have been pretty nice to me when I've approached them for help( and not acted like an idiot).
I have been kicked a couple times from #A1 for no reason, but it's important to note that its not like i couldnt just rejoin the channel. minor inconvenience at best. stop whining. ( and stop using the pfhortipfhrown.)

a lot of Modern FPS games and games in general are SHIT!!!! I agree. Crysis was amazing...for 5 minutes.
Resistance 2 was amazing...for 5 minutes...
Gears of War was amazing...for 5 minutes...
Even Turok was alright...for 5 minutes...


What I am aiming at is the classic 3D games like Half-Life, Half-Life 2, F.E.A.R., Deus Ex, Far Cry (which beat the crap out of crysis IMO), System Shock 2, Call of Duty 4, and ESPECIALLY BioShock (IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED IT GO BUY IT!!!)

I know that a lot of these games are old now, so I think I should've thought of a better way to say what I wanted. I think a more appropriate term to use would be a "post-half-life" style marathon remake. When Half-Life was released, damn everything changed and games became more reaslistic. So if we wanted to create a marathon remake, we should learn from games like these, not those pieces of shit like GOW, R2, KZ2, Turok, all that.

Halo is one of the best game series ever made, in my opinion. Which I'm not forcing on anybody. #2 sucked though.

NO ONE HAS EVER SPEAKEN TRUER WORDS!!!! I hated sitting through Halo 2 they screwed it all up. The removed the epic land battles, they got rid of the AR and Really sick magnum, they even messed up the story and ending *shivers*. Still, this project, whatever it becomes, cannot become another Halo.

[Major Pedro]

Far Cry was so frustrating I stopped playing and only recently came back and finished it.

When Half-Life was released, damn everything changed and games became more realistic

Which has it's ups and downs. but remember- If someone is playing a game, it's to get away from the real.

[acks45]

What I am aiming at is the classic 3D games like Half-Life, Half-Life 2, F.E.A.R., Deus Ex, Far Cry (which beat the crap out of crysis IMO), System Shock 2, Call of Duty 4, and ESPECIALLY BioShock (IF YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED IT GO BUY IT!!!)

wow, I must be getting old. classic gaming to me means, Doom, Wolfie3D, Duke, and Shadow Warrior.....Escape Velocity was a mad game. too bad AmbrosiaSW hasn't get into handheld gaming. that would be such a niche for them to corner with most of their games. Avara and Over Ride would be rad on DS.

[CryoS]

i like that gun allot, i might steal its look ^^