Eternal X 1.2

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Pfhorrest
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Awesome, thanks Lia!
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The last of the planned map bugfixes for Eternal X 1.2.1 are complete, so here is the first beta map file:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_releas ... 1.sceA.zip

It and all the other files can of course be found in:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_releas ... v121betas/

Just add those to a fresh copy of 1.2 from the main site where appropriate.

I'm hoping to begin a quick cooperative run-through of the scenario tonight, around 7-8 PM Pacific time, and hoping to complete one chapter per night over this week. I expect we will also discover that lower-resolution textures are still needed, so I will probably roll those together tomorrow or something, and then maybe we can put out 1.2.1 after the run-through is complete.
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Pfhorrest
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Image

Under-media fog seems to be switching on when it shouldn't be? The below is me looking through Aaron's eyes in coop while my body was (probably) under lava. It kept switching between normal fog and this, probably because I kept respawning in the sky and then falling into lava and dying.

I'm not sure if this could be due to some bug in our own media fog script somewhere (Lia?) or possibly something up with Aleph One itself? (Treellama? Hopper?)
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treellama
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Aleph One fog is level-wide, so it works fine in co-op. If you have a script turning it on and off, then it's your script that's broken.
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The Man
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I think it probably isn't working with camera switching, mostly because it wasn't something we took into consideration when we wrote it. I might be able to fix it, but I'd need someone to host network games to test it, because I'm not able to host network games due to my unconventional firewall setup (the usual steps for port forwarding don't actually work). I'm confused as to why the media fog script would even be active in that level, though - as far as I recall, that level doesn't have any other media except lava.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

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treellama
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I don't think you can fix it. It's broken broken--don't mess with fog on a local player basis.
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The Man
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It looks like there’s a Cameras() index, but I haven’t looked into how it works in great depth, since we only found out about the bug last night. I don’t know if there are enough features to be able to determine which camera is being accessed by which player (which seems a strange thing to have left out, but whatever).

Either way, I think I’d rather have it work this way, since it only happens when players are accessing another player’s camera, which isn’t something that I’d imagine happens very often – the script at least works as intended when players are accessing their own camera. And as far as I know, fog isn’t something that actually changes gameplay per se; it just affects the graphics. Seeing the lava fog underwater looks really, really bad, so if avoiding that means we have to get glitchy fog when a player is looking at another player’s camera, I think I’m willing to make that tradeoff.

…also, I don’t think this even can be related to our media fog script, because that script not only doesn’t appear on “S’pht’ia”, but doesn’t appear at all in the scenario until two levels later, “She Is the Dark One”. Which makes me think it’s a glitch with Aleph One itself. We have different fog under lava than we do above it – is that perhaps the cause? Or maybe it’s just how the lava damage fader looks above lava.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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treellama
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Just looked and saw there's an MML setting for under media fog. That's probably the issue then.
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Pfhorrest
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Yeah, I also checked and confirmed that there is no media fog stuff in the Lua on the level in question, just the weapon stuff.

So I think it's probably as I first suspected: in Aleph One generally, when one player's body is under media, they see the under-media fog applied, even if they're currently looking through the camera of a player who is not under media.

I'll take this off the Eternal to-do list then.
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Pfhorrest
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The Eternal-Walls plugin v1.2.1b2 is up now:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_releas ... v121b2.zip

I had to just resave the problematic transparent textures with Aorta again because nobody's had time to redo them properly for me, so the problems induced by that are back again for now but this version has everything at 1024, not 1024 + 2048 special textures, so the memory requirements should be less, and hopefully Windows users will be able to use it without reducign texture quality.

I'd appreciate feedback from any Windows users on whether or not that actually works for them.

If that still doesn't work, I'll try a version with most textures at 512 and only the special textures at 1024.
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The Man
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We’ve got the rain plugin working. I’ve also messed about quite a bit with scripting, and it’s possible to do some pretty cool effects with it. This is more or less what “A Friend in Need” is going to look like in 1.2.1 with all the options on (including the optional ultra-HD textures). You’ll notice the purple forcefields block rain, and once the player disables the power for them, they disappear. I’m particularly fond of this change. Thanks to Wrkncacnter for all the help with scripting for this level, and in particular putting up with my dumb mistakes like forgetting that it’s “~=” and not “!=” in Lua.

It’s quite possible that this entire chapter will end up having rain (apart from the dreams and the space mission), either in 1.2.1 or 1.3 – the idea is that the planet these missions are taking on is sort of the alien equivalent of a tropical rainforest, meaning that it’s almost always raining.

Most of my other Eternal 1.2.1 videos that I’ve rendered can be found here. We did a lot of network testing that I haven’t rendered yet, because presenting those in a way that makes sense is a lot more complicated, and I don’t really have time to edit them right now. Once the semester ends I may go back and encode all the network testing films – there’s a lot of them.

I think if all goes well, we can probably have a release candidate for 1.2.1 in about two months, and a final release after that; work on 1.3 will begin at some point following that, though we may take a break for a while (I do, after all, also have Where Monsters Are in Dreams and Marathon Chronicles, and I’ve helped out here and there with assorted other development tasks for other games as well; Lia has M1R and I’m sure Pfhorrest has other tasks he’ll work on in the interim as well). 1.3 will involve some substantial changes and additions to the story, some of which have already been discussed here, and at least two levels are liable to be completely overhauled. More about this after I discuss with Pfhorrest what we should reveal here.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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Pfhorrest
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1.2.1 Walls beta 3 is up now, since Aaron confirmed that walls beta 2 still didn't work on Windows:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_releas ... v121b3.zip

All textures besides the "Special" ones are now 512, while the "Specials" remain at the 1024 they were reduced to in beta 2.

The problems with the "Special" textures in beta 2 still remain, pending someone with access to better DDS software fixing them for me.
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The Man
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I have not tested every level, but as expected, from the ones I have tested:
  • Levels I’ve tested that use only one media type work fine.
  • Levels that use multiple types crash.
I’ll work on finishing off the “media reassignment” script and the new precipitation physics tonight, along with changes to “I’ve Got a Bad Feeling About This”. After tonight, though, my work may slow down for the next month as the end of the semester looms (and I’m liable to focus my gaming efforts on finishing off the WMAiD demo once I’m confident all the precipitation content in Eternal works properly, apart from the “frozen effects in saved games” glitch).
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
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My changes have gotten complicated enough (added precipitation plugin, juggled media so that it’s no longer to load multiple collections on Windows, added sounds, etc) that I felt it was appropriate to simply repackage the whole game. This isn’t a completely official beta yet, but feel free to download it and let me know if there are any issues. This should run on Windows with all the options on without any issues (even when using Aleph One 1.2.1), but I haven’t tested every level yet. I have tested all the one that were likely to cause problems (i.e., levels that used to use multiple texture sets), and they all seem to be fine.

(To extract this, you will probably need Keka on the Mac, 7-zip on Windows, and p7zip on Linux. All of them should be easy to find with quick Google searches.)
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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treellama
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Is there somewhere I can actually download the broken DDS file? All that's in the zip file you uploaded is a couple PNGs.
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treellama
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Does under media fog work correctly for out-of-body players if you use the Shader renderer, instead of the deprecated Classic renderer?
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The Man
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I don't actually remember. Maybe someone can host a network game tonight so I can test?

I'll upload the DDS files separately tonight if I can find them. Which ones did you want in particular?
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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Pfhorrest
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treellama wrote:Does under media fog work correctly for out-of-body players if you use the Shader renderer, instead of the deprecated Classic renderer?
I'm running 1.3b3 which only has "Software" and "OpenGL" options, but I'm guessing "OpenGL" is Shader in that case, so no, the weird fog screenshots from earlier were taken in the Shader renderer.
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Pfhorrest
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Aaron I think this was addressed to me, not you...
treellama wrote:Is there somewhere I can actually download the broken DDS file? All that's in the zip file you uploaded is a couple PNGs.
The latest Walls beta I linked above contains all of them (every 08.dds and 10.dds), but here's one attached for reference.

I'm pretty sure this one was just saved with no MIPmaps and no compression because that makes everything work fine at full-resolution, but of course fails when using any MIPmap settings:

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_misc/10.dds.zip

Also here is a version resaved with MIPmaps and DDS that should* look like this:

Image

http://eternal.bungie.org/files/_misc/10alt.dds.zip

(*"should" as in I expect it to, not as in that's what it's meant to look like)
Last edited by Pfhorrest on Mar 27th '20, 23:36, edited 2 times in total.
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treellama
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I’m interested in the broken DDS. With broken mipmaps.
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Pfhorrest
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treellama wrote:I’m interested in the broken DDS. With broken mipmaps.
Realized that right after posting and edited the post above as you posted this.
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The Man
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Pfhorrest wrote:Aaron I think this was addressed to me, not you...
I suspected that, but I just knew you were busy and thought I might have them myself. I probably didn't have the broken ones, though.

And yeah, I think the shader is the only renderer on 1.3 unless you do some weird settings thing I that I've already forgotten.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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treellama
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Here is a comparison of the original image and the first mipmap:

Colors:
color.png
Alpha:
alpha.png
The rest of the chain looks correct to me as well. So, to me it looks like Aorta is creating the correct mipmaps. Are you sure 10alt.dds is the image you had trouble with?

Edit: I expect this to look like your most recent screenshot
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Pfhorrest
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The problem in that version is that even the normal image doesn’t look correct after converting. See the comparison of earlier screenshots; the correct appearance is not nearly so dark and weird.

Image
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treellama
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So mipmaps are not the problem then?

(Fwiw your screenshots are either tiny, or so huge I can only see less than half of the screen)
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