Eternal X 1.2

Discuss and unveil current Marathon projects.
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ravenshining
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Ah, I must have missed that bit reading the terminals. I thought they were just coming, and the timing with the circuit smash was a kludge/coincidence. After all, the first teminal says,

"The [?enemy] has noticed our movements and are rapidly encroaching on this facility as we speak."

I only made one time-based, the Pfhor should have come through the other when you hit the wires... Anyway, I'll restore that mechanic to both platforms and make a PR. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Was there a point to the secondary set of wires in the basement that do the same thing? Also, I think it'd be cool if there was a nuke effect when you hit the wires or something - and indeed there is a monster crusher on the map implying there was one at some point - but since timing a nuke involves physics changes I'll leave that up to you.
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The Man
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I should really re-read the terminals properly one of these days. Half of this stuff has just gone completely over my head.

I’m going to submit a few level changes either tonight or tomorrow night that I guess Lia can merge into a pull request, since I don’t really have time to figure out how to sort out my Github problems right now. I can’t promise I’ll be submitting anything close to everything I want to do over the next couple of weeks, since I’ve got schoolwork to deal with plus the holiday plus a family birthday that always comes right around Thanksgiving (often on Thanksgiving, though not this year). I think “S’pht Happens” is up-to-date, but I’ve got new versions of the first three levels in chapter 5, I think, plus “S’pht’ia”. I may also go through and start cleaning up stuff like the misaligned split doors and various other ambient sound issues I missed the first time around, plus bouncy walls, messy automap issues, and any other cosmetic fixes I notice.

The bigger changes are ones I’m sort of dreading: bringing the “Corporation” levels into line with one another and redoing the outside rock formations in ch. 4 (“The Incredible Hulk” and “Babylon X”, mostly). The latter will actually feature some fun parts, but then I’ll have to redo the enemy placement. I am not looking forward to that. That’s actually the same reason I don’t look forward to the “Corporation” levels: the items. I’ll have to redo those all by hand. Maybe someone can write a script to automate the transfer of items from one version of a level to another. It may be beyond my capacity, since the script has to figure out which object corresponds to which polygon.

A long series of new videos with commentary in their descriptions follows. Also, if you think I’m forgetting about some changes I’ve made and haven’t submitted, please do let me know. I’m feeling very mentally disorganised right now; it took some mental effort just to get all these videos up and in the right place. I think this is a sign that I haven’t been sleeping enough, or else the difficult material from class is just leaving me scatterbrained. Or both.



#18 The Living Receiver

#22 S’pht’ia

#25 S’pht Happens

#42 Echoes of Eden (complete, more or less)

#42 Echoes of Eden (cooked speedrun strategy)

#43 The Dead Live in the Catacombs

#44 These Caves Can’t Be a Natural Formation

#45 Deep Into the Grotto

#46 Frog Blast the Vent Core

#47 I’ve Got a Bad Feeling About This

#48 The Philosophy of Time Travel

And then a few that I’m fairly sure I’ve already posted, but that have new video descriptions:

#24 She Is the Dark One (speedrun)

#24 She Is the Dark One (fists only)

#49 This Message Will Self-Destruct

If needed, I can compile the new video descriptions here as well, but it might be awhile. There are a couple other recent-ish videos I still need to write descriptions for as well, and I omitted a few videos that have already been supplanted with newer revisions, as I rarely wrote anything of interest for those.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

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ravenshining
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PR up for Deep in the Grotto.

Fixed the Pfhor. They won't emerge until you smash the panel, and they definitely will emerge.

Wrkncacnter are all back up near the start, but behind doors. The Wrkncacnter doors will open as soon as you approach a terminal. The other new doors, closing off the the caverns, can either be opened by the new switch OR the Wrkncacnter themselves - this way, Goal activated Wrkncacnter will filter down through the level as before if you activate them but don't hit the switch. So you still can get lost, it's just harder to do so, you won't get mobbed by everyone in a confined space, and there will likely be Wrkncacnter near the start to attack the Pfhor.

Wrkncacnter spawn more often, with a cap of several thousand. Ammo slowly spawns infinitely, and there are extra, network-only grav-blades that also spawn infinitely for cooperative games. Pfhor fighters, drones, and Wrkncacnter have minimums.

Regarding the sub-basement you had to GJ into: this appeared to be some unfinished easter egg or something, originally there was a circuit panel that duplicated the objective panel, but you couldn't access it until after the objective was smashed, rendering it useless. The other panel lowered some elevators connecting the sub-basement to the big flooded room. Approaching either panel glitched you into neighboring polygons. Overall, broken and pointless.

So, I made the room and panels more accessible, fixed the glitching polys, and changed the duplicate panel to control one of the elevators. Now you can go down there without GJing, and smash the panels to create an alternate route between the big flooded room and the southeast ventilation shaft.

I also fixed a switch in the basement that would continue to function when it should not, making it possible to have flooded areas adjacent to non-flooded areas. Now it may only be activated once.
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The Man
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Thanks for handling all that. I was wondering what was up with that room. There also seems to have been an area on the automap around that room that closed off, and I was never able to access it. That drove me bonkers. As I’m sure anyone who’s watched enough of my replays has noticed, I’m a bit obsessive about completing the automap as much as possibles. Never did figure out what was up with that.

tbcr and I did figure out a route for that level that only involves shutting off two of the computer banks (may have mentioned that in the description), but I can’t remember what it was now. I’m pretty sure that room where I grenade jumped was the key to deactivating the media forcefield, but I can’t remember which other room opened up access to it now. I’ll get it soon enough.

Will try your latest version tomorrow night probably. I do wonder if setting a minimum number of enemies might be a bit much, though. If they spawn at a high enough rate, there should be enough that you’ll usually have something to fight.

It does look like there’s also an entire segment of the level I didn’t know about, though, centring around platform 920. I’ll have to do some more exploring next time I play it.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

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ravenshining
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It's only minimums 1-3. Just to keep the level from being entirely without opposition, as it can easily become once you've slaughtered the initial group, which is now smaller.
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The Man
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Ah, that’s completely reasonable. I was worried it was something unmanageable.

Might actually try it tonight after all. I also think that segment I mentioned may be a debug room, but I’m not sure. I can’t figure out a way to access it during normal gameplay.

Also, that segment of the map that closed off during my film seems to be a platform that activates only once and deactivates at the original level. Which is bad, because the platform that takes the player out does the same thing, which, if I’m not mistaken, could trap the player. I think that needs to be altered. Offending platforms are 846 and 849.
Last edited by The Man on Nov 23rd '18, 03:39, edited 2 times in total.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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Pfhorrest
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thanks again both of you and happy thanksgiving!
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The Man
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No problem, and happy Thanksgiving to both of you too (and anyone else reading this). May wish to note my last-minute addition to my previous post. That should be easily fixed; just disable “activates only once” flag for platforms 846 and 849 in “Deep into the Grotto”. (Might also want to disable “can’t deactivate externally”.)
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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ravenshining
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That's just it, you couldn't access it (room behind door 919) until after you smashed the circuits - and what it contains was another set of circuits. Maybe at one point in development, the circuit you currently smash only gave you access to the sub-basement, and the sub-basement circuit was the real objective? I can see where that arrangement would seem cool from a mapmaker's point of view, but confuse players.

Ninja'd- I didn't even notice that little hallway (846-849). I guess I could fix that, but I'll wait until you've given the present version a whirl.
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The Man
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Sounds reasonable. I’d also mark them as secret now that I think about it, along with platform 852. I still don’t understand a good chunk of how this level works. Probably the most disorienting and complicated level in the game, though I’d still give “Genie in a Bottle” the distinction of being the strangest.

I do kind of want to make that portion of the map relevant now, though. You can still get there by grenade jumping up there from the southeastern corner after finishing the level; it’s just something few players would tend to think of doing. Maybe there can be some secret ammo that teleports in there or something.

ETA: Yeah, put in some secret ammo. It’s near the end of the game; I can justify adding a stupidly large amount of enforcer ammo at this point. I can still refine that area further, but I’ll go ahead and test it first. I’ll hopefully report back within the next couple of hours.

Edit the second: I think it’s pretty much perfect now. I’ve just changed one of the doors from when I recorded my latest film and, assuming there are no other bugs I haven’t noticed, I think it’s mostly good to go for the final version. The only thing I can think of changing is altering Mothrids and Banshees so they don’t spawn randomly. I don’t really want any monsters to show up in the secret area, but I need item triggers to make it work, and monsters can spawn randomly on those. However, I don’t know if there’s any reason the “random location” flag was set for those two.

Anyway, film forthcoming. I’ve attached a version of the level with my changes. And I’ll attach my versions of “Echoes of Eden” through “These Caves Can’t Be a Natural Formation” in just a moment, too.

Edit the third: and here’s the latest “Deep Into the Grotto” film.
Attachments
These Caves Can’t Be a Natural Formation.sceA.zip
(89.99 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
The Dead Live In The Catacombs.sceA.zip
(64.02 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
Echoes of Eden.sceA.zip
(103.42 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
Deep Into The Grotto.sceA.zip
(120.54 KiB) Downloaded 87 times
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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ravenshining
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Okay, PR up with your three levels and further revision to Deep into the Grotto.

There are now three vents out of that northwest room, with five ways to get in - one for each little ledge. There is also a second elevator out of the big central room.

I had a little different take on the sub-basement. I kept the accessibility - no gjing necessary - and it starts out dry. Smash the west panel, and the floodgates open, it fills with water, and the level of water in the main room above drops slightly. There are some cosmetic updates to go along with this mechanic. You can't smash the east panel until after you've smashed the end panel, but once you do, the fancy-looking partition in the middle of the room splits open to reveal some goodies. I didn't want to do Pfhor ammo given Pfhorrest's reservations about Jjaro having it, so instead there's health and invisibility, which should be handy in making your escape.

There's also a lot of improvement in passable/impassable polygons across the level, so Wrkncacnters shouldn't spawn in areas they can't get out of, and the Pfhor can exit all their doors.

I counted a grand total of 62 platforms. Weland seems to have some trouble with that, bringing up a blank dialog sometimes. I kept having to reset some to normal or quit and re-load.
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The Man
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Well, IIRC, he’d said there was no issue with having ammo like that in secrets. But, on second thought, that location isn’t secret enough for that to qualify – most players probably wouldn’t think to look there again after finishing the mission, but it’s still visible in plain sight once they’ve done so. So I’m gonna think more about possibly putting some secret ammo somewhere else.

In attempting to speedrun the latest version, I also noticed the route I was going to use doesn’t actually work anymore, which makes sense from an in-universe perspective – you actually should need to deactivate all those computer banks for the mission to be complete. But that’s gonna add a few minutes to speedruns, so I think I want to put in a secret that bypasses that as well.

I’ll take another look at the architecture and ponder what a good location would be for a new secret (or maybe even two new secrets). Probably one of those dead-end caverns that doesn’t currently serve any purpose.

…also, come to think of it, by the time you can access that ammo, the Pfhor have arrived. So there’s that too. But I still want it to be more hidden. And of course there isn’t any logical reason the Pfhor would be teleporting you ammo, unless either a rogue Pfhor was aiding you or the Jjaro learnt to replicate their ammo after they arrived.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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ravenshining
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I don't know how anything I did would have altered your completion route, you'll have to be more specific. If anything it should be easier, there are a few spots you can GJ into a vent without much trouble if you don't lower the water. I suppose I could watch your videos, but I'd have to pay my phone bill first!

If you have more things you'd like to do with it, I'm done for now. I should probably unset random location for the mothrids, as they seem to get stuck places, but I like at least having banshees appear randomly.

Speaking of mothrids, there's something terribly wrong with their hitboxes. We ought to go over their physics and shapes at some point - I think the origin is set all the way down below their tentacles, and if you shoot their body your shots go though. Not something I noticed until I recently discovered that they are in fact vulnerable to non-Jjaro weapons!
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The Man
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Yeah, I was mentioning Mothrids’ messed-up hitboxes awhile back. Banshees also have messed-up hitboxes, though not quite to the same extent.

Previously, to complete the mission, you only had to visit the segment behind door 574, then the segment behind 589. Then you could wander straight through, destroy the wires, and teleport out. I’m not sure if this was your revision or one of Forrest’s, but it now seems you have to deactivate all the computer banks. Hence why I’m throwing in another secret.

I’ll go ahead and unset the random location for the Mothrids. Not sure what I’ll do about having ammo teleport in. Maybe it won’t matter if it’s just one polygon.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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ravenshining
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Hm, I've been going back through previous revisions, and not even the copy from all the way back in March in my Eternal 1.1 folder lets me do that.
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The Man
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That’s strange. tbcr just ran the 1.1 version of the level on Kindergarten a few hours ago using this route. I just encoded that on my computer, so I know it works. We’d actually planned that out using 1.2 a few days ago, but when I tried it again earlier tonight, it didn’t work.

Anyway, I just tested the new secret on Vasara. I think it’ll work, but I need to do a proof of concept in the game proper before declaring it finished.

ETA: It works. Just did it in 2:45, which seems reasonable since I got lost on the way and had trouble punching one of the switches.

(Also, as an aside, I don’t know if it’s possible to overstate how much of an improvement 1.2 is over 1.1 in pretty much every way.)

Edit the second: Here’s the new version. I decided not to bother putting in more Pfhor ammo after all, since there’s an endless stream of Enforcers at the end of the level.

And here’s a speedrun. I’ll post a complete film of the revision later today.
Attachments
Deep Into The Grotto.sceA.zip
(132.1 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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ravenshining
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One other thing I noticed when loading up the old versions, was all the headless and the spheres! Searching back through the topic, I guess I missed the whole conversation about headless getting replaced with mothrids. A pity, as I rather liked the headless and especially the whole Pathways theme. These Mothrids look really grainy compared to everything else the way they're blown up so huge, not to mention the hitbox problem.

I would've rather seen the Headless get the black treatment:
bitmap072.png
bitmap072.png (6.54 KiB) Viewed 3511 times
bitmap072b.png
bitmap072b.png (5.3 KiB) Viewed 3511 times
Or, keeping in the Pathways theme while going airborne, have the replacement be the Wraith:
wraithb.png
wraith.png
but I suppose I should have said this in Feburary!
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Pfhorrest
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can someone please contact president people for help fixing the monsters

also i’m not totally against that wraith idea
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The Man
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A brief* note about memory use and scripting, which I hope I’ve explained clearly:

It would benefit the game to ensure levels need to use as few collections as possible, so as to keep memory usage relatively low. Correspondingly, it would probably actually be a good idea to make a shapes change and a global physics change moving the media splash effects to the Items collection. The rationale behind this is that, for levels where more than one type of liquid appears, the game won’t have to load another scenery collection. The game always loads the items collection, and the splash effects are a small sacrifice to make in comparison to the giant savings overall. I’ve done this in Chronicles for most of the levels that load more than one liquid.

The second memory saving is available, paradoxically, by adding textures for all five media to all five collections. Again, this is to balance the overall cost of adding four additional textures against the cost of having to load an extra 130 for the levels that need extra media (which currently is at least three that I can think of: “She Is the Dark One”, “S’pht Happens”, “Flight of Icarus”… but I’m sure I’ve forgotten some). Then, to each level’s media fog script, it’s possible to remap the other media assignments so that they correspond to the media fog script being loaded. I don’t have time at present to work this out, but I can do so later. The only necessary caveat here is that the media fog script must correspond to the texture collection utilised in the map to get the memory savings (though it shouldn’t be catastrophic from the user’s end if the wrong one is assigned; you’ll just defeat the purpose of saving memory this way).

This brings us to scripting. Point the first is that it’s possible to fix the under-media fog script for levels that use more than one kind of liquid by using Lua. (Examples where the player can submerge beneath multiple media types include “Flight of Icarus” and “S’pht Happens”.) I use this in all of my Chronicles levels that have more than one flavour of Pfhor goo (examples include “Room a Thousand Years Wide”, “Dimensional Bleedthrough”, and “Kill Your Sons”). I can easily adapt this script to the media fog settings used in Eternal.

Which brings us to my second scripting point. This media fog script is disabled in network games, and I simply embed it using TEXT resource 128 because it won’t have any effect in network games. I bring this up because there’s something in the Lua documentation that indicates that using TEXT resources results in scripts not being sent to other players. I’m not sure if this is correct, because I haven’t been able to test it, but if it is, then it could be catastrophic for Eternal, because if memory serves, a rather large amount of how the game handles items and weapons is handled in Lua using TEXT resource 1000 or something. Has anyone even tested Eternal in co-op? If not, we probably need to get on that soon.

Gotta go get lunch – more later, probably. Can someone submit a PR using my latest “Deep Into the Grotto”? Thanks in advance.

Oh, and the wraith idea does seem kinda cool, especially if the art is revamped to fit Eternal better.

Also, latest Deep Into the Grotto vid film.

…All right. Here’s the Lua script for media fog, adapted to Eternal’s values:

Code: Select all

function Triggers.init()
	if #Players == 1 then
		if Players[0].polygon.media then
			if Players[0].polygon.media.type == "water" then
				Level.underwater_fog.color.r = .75
				Level.underwater_fog.color.g = .875
				Level.underwater_fog.color.b = 1
			elseif Players[0].polygon.media.type == "lava" then
				Level.underwater_fog.color.r = 1
				Level.underwater_fog.color.g = .5
				Level.underwater_fog.color.b = 0
			elseif Players[0].polygon.media.type == "sewage" then
				Level.underwater_fog.color.r = 0
				Level.underwater_fog.color.g = 1
				Level.underwater_fog.color.b = 0
			elseif Players[0].polygon.media.type == "goo" then
				Level.underwater_fog.color.r = 1
				Level.underwater_fog.color.g = 0
				Level.underwater_fog.color.b = 1
		    else
				Level.underwater_fog.color.r = 0
				Level.underwater_fog.color.g = .25
				Level.underwater_fog.color.b = 0
			end
		end
	end
end
Note that I think the values currently included in the fog script for Jjaro sludge (resource ID 10013) may not match the tint of the liquid. It currently looks like it’s black. I assumed here that it was meant to be solid green. If that’s incorrect, change the “sewage” values to 0, 0, and 0. (“Sewage” in the internal scripting actually matches the Jjaro set, due to how Eternal’s collections are arranged. The Sewage collection internally is actually the Jjaro collection, and the Jjaro collection internally is actually the Human collection… which uses sewage. Yes, it’s confusing.)

Anyway, you can probably just embed this as a Lua resource for levels that use more than one liquid type (IIRC, “She Is the Dark One”, “S’pht Happens”, and “Flight of Icarus”, though I may have forgotten one). Since it’s disabled for net games and only a cosmetic addition, it doesn’t matter if it isn’t sent to other players.

Also, I was mistaken above about how the media fog scripts would match 1:1 to the texture collections to which the media should be remapped, since I didn’t remember that a couple Lh’owon levels don’t use lava as their main medium. As a result, I think you’ll probably just need to add an extra set of scripts. Not a big deal. Can just use 10061 to 10065. As far as HD versions go, you can just remap the versions from any given collection. I’ll write scripts for this later.

*…OK, not so brief anymore after the edit. Oh well.

(edited again to fix inexplicable incompatibility with Eternal’s weapon script… and now it’s just not doing anything. Will have to debug more.)
Last edited by The Man on Nov 24th '18, 08:02, edited 2 times in total.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

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Pfhorrest
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way too much for me to comprehend while away on my phone but i think text resources not being sent to other players doesn’t matter if the other players are already running the same map with those resources already embedded in them

can confirm that coop eternal weapons lua has worked fine in the past
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Pfhorrest
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also while i really appreciate everyone helping so much while i’m away making big sweeping changes that im going to have to spend time approving or reversing or something in the last couple of weeks when im already going to be rushed and stressed just testing what’s already done all being brought up while im away and can’t really do or even think or talk about it except in brief spurts is really making me anxious. i barely have time to even write this.

i just want to make sure that what we have already is good enough to release at the end of the year. anything going above and beyond that can be pushed back to another release some other time.
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The Man
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That’s fair. However, I should note that I’m also testing them extensively, and I’m pretty sure TBCR and John will at least be testing them extensively as well, at least for chapter 5. So hopefully you won’t need to worry about things not working. Good luck with all your stuff, and try not to stress out too much over things.

I should note that in a fit of procrastination I added another secret to “Deep into the Grotto”. Part of the map looked empty. Nothing like the skip I added; this time it might be another secret recharge or something along those lines. Haven’t fully decided yet.

... also, most of the gameplay videos I've been posting have been largely products of my testing the levels again, I should note. I'm making it a goal to get through each level again at least once.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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Pfhorrest
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oh i don’t mean anything about the level changes and what not that’s all fine and i totally trust you guys with all of that. i just mean like, major scenario wide changes like shuffling around what collections things are in and adding scenario wide lua doing new things that i don’t have time to fully process while im gone. that’s all.
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The Man
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Ah, right. My explanation may have been rough and made my plans sound more complicated and extensive than they are. I don’t actually plan to change the default collections of anything. The idea is simply to streamline levels that contain multiple media so they use less memory, which could have a major impact on Windows in particular. If there aren’t any changes to the shapes since beta 5, I can go ahead and take care of them. If there are, send me the latest file and I can still deal with them myself.

My basic idea for scenery is to add the media splash effects to the end of the Items collection. Then the physics models can be updated to use the Items splash effects. This will eliminate the need to load multiple scenery collections when a Lh’owon level contains water and/or sewage, for instance.

For media textures themselves, I don’t plan to change anything globally, either; just for specific levels. The idea is that each collection should contain the other collections’ media. So the following bitmaps would be added at the end of each texture set:

Code: Select all

Forerunner: 130 = lava;  131 = Jjaro; 132 = sewage; 133 = goo
Lh’owon:    130 = water; 131 = Jjaro; 132 = sewage; 133 = goo
Jjaro:      130 = water; 131 = lava;  132 = sewage; 133 = goo
Human:      130 = water; 131 = lava;  132 = Jjaro;  133 = goo
Pfhor:      130 = water; 131 = lava;  132 = Jjaro;  133 = sewage
That way, if someone needs to utilise multiple media in a level, you can remap them to use the textures at the end of each collection rather than having to call an entire extra set to add what is, in 90% of cases, going to be exactly one texture. Then you can use this script for the Lh’owon collection (I think; may need to tweak slightly but it should work roughly along those lines):

Code: Select all

<marathon>
	<liquids>
		<liquid index="0" coll="18" frame="130"/>
		<liquid index="2" coll="18" frame="133"/>
		<liquid index="3" coll="18" frame="131"/>
		<liquid index="4" coll="18" frame="132"/>
		</liquid>
	</liquids>
</marathon>
And so on for the other collections. Naturally, in OpenGL you can just refer those textures to their respective textures in their native sets. With respect to the total memory usage for textures, this is likely to add about 1% or 2% to levels that don’t call multiple media, but could reduce the usage to 50% or even 33% of what would be required in levels that call two or three media (“Flight of Icarus” currently calls three collections: Forerunner, Lh’owon, and Human).

This sounds a lot more complicated than it is. I’ve already taken care of the complicated portion in Chronicles, so it should be simple to adapt to Eternal.

Anyway, I can make sure this works fine by the time release date rolls around, so please try not to stress out about it.
“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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The Man
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Some level revisions.

I think I’m done adding new secrets to “Deep Into the Grotto”, but I can’t promise anything. I find the level’s winding corridors to be very conducive to adding new secret areas.

There are a couple areas where I can’t get the ambient sounds to work, especially the area between polygons 539 and 563. If someone could explain what I’ve done wrong, I’d be greatly appreciative.

I also changed the Banshees back to not being random locations. The problem is that if they’re random, then I can either use item triggers, in which they’ll at least theoretically spawn in secrets and give away that there’s something the player hasn’t explored, or else I can just have the items show up on the map without the player exploring an area, which will also give away that there’s something the player hasn’t explored. I’m not sure I care for either of those options, unless someone can provide another suggestion. I really want the only clue about any of the secrets to be ambient sounds that play near the doors.

I’m still not quite done with “Pissing”, but I fixed a few door sounds and annoyingly slow platforms that we somehow missed. I do wonder if I should make the monsters from the “Burning Down” segment all teleport in on this version so they don’t show up on the map. I’ll do it for the final release, maybe.

My change in “We Met Once” was mostly fixing the water heights so the waterfalls look good. In fact, I can’t remember if I even changed anything else. I may at some point make another secret that makes it possible for the player to explore the high, inaccessible area around polygon 345, but I haven’t decided for certain yet.

I think the last thing I’m gonna do before the final release is go through and make sure all the door textures are aligned properly. There are several levels, especially in the S’pht chapter, where the split doors are all screwed up, but I don’t think I’ll bother fixing that until the last week, since there’s a chance of someone retexturing them again and inadvertently screwing them up. The way VML/Vasara handle those textures seems to confuse everyone else.

More vid films TK later today. Several are encoded already and I’ve got a few more to go, but I think I’ll just post them all in one batch.

…oh, I forgot to attach “S’pht’ia”. Adding that too. I’m not finished with it – i can’t get the relighting script for “S’pht Happens” to work yet. When I do that I’m gonna reattach the tower segment from that level to make the outer view more complete. Might do that for both the start segment and the final segment, but haven’t decided yet.

…and one other thing: if secret levels are out, what about a completely gratuitous secret segment that teleports you to a completely gratuitous, otherwise unconnected passage?
Attachments
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Pissing on the Corporation.sceA.zip
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“People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” —V, V for Vendetta (Alan Moore)

“The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. If you can’t lick ’em, join ’em. If it hurts, repeat it. But to praise despair is to condemn delight, to embrace violence is to lose hold of everything else. We have almost lost hold; we can no longer describe happy man, nor make any celebration of joy.” —Ursula K. Le Guin, “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”

“If others had not been foolish, we should be so.” —William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

“The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.” —Frank Wilhoit

Last.fm · Marathon Chronicles · Marathon Eternal 1.2 · Where Monsters Are in Dreams · YouTube Vidmaster’s Challenge
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