Second Quest is complete!

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.
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RyokoTK
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With the assistance of screamingfool, Kinetic Turtle, irons, and Treellama, I've met the original goal behind Second Quest of remaking all 22 original netmaps that came packaged with Marathon Infinity. They did a great job, and really I think it's a neat project -- some of the maps included are just awesome. Now it's an issue of getting the name out there so that we don't have to play the originals any longer (and if you like those instead of the new ones... well, poo on you).

On top of the 22 maps that come included with Second Quest are bonus maps. Bonus maps are remakes that aren't from the original Infinity netpack, but they're still classics that deserve the effort to be remade and brought up to today's standards. I'm pleased with all of these maps. I intend to keep the project open -- the goal is to get around 6 more bonus maps, for a grand total of 30 maps.

For those of you that aren't familiar with some of the results of this project, here's a comparison pic. These aren't even necessarily the best maps in the pack; they're just the ones that look the most similar. Other remakes are a little more creative; we tried where we could to keep the original structure, but sometimes it was better to do a spiritual remake than a structural one. The goal was to make good maps, first and foremost.

(originals on the left, remakes on the right)


Download Second Quest from Fileball and make sure to rate it a 5 *wink wink*. Or don't, but download it anyway and give it a look. It's pretty cool stuff.
Last edited by RyokoTK on May 31st '07, 17:33, edited 1 time in total.
Phortiphy
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i think the whole passage at the bottom of melatonin ruined it. but i'm the only one who likes the original, so hey


nice job.

; ) [MGrin]
Last edited by Phortiphy on Jun 1st '07, 03:08, edited 1 time in total.
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assassingao
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"Review?"

Well, I'm not gonna ass-licking anyone here, but from the solo look of each level in this pack. Your team managed to capture the feel of the original map pack and added it into the "Second Quest"
It's different, but it gives the same feeling as Marathon Infinity's original map pack. And that's great thing.

Defenitely a five. Thumbs up. A job well done!
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kineticturtle
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Phortiphy wrote:i think the whole passage at the bottom of melatonin ruined it. but i'm the only one who likes the original, so hey
nice job.
Actually I was quite a fan of the original, but one of the major problems with the map was the lack of interonnectedness of all those little pits. My version of the map turns all that space into a battleground, rather than just somewhere to fall to, get annoyed, and climb back out of.

But uh, thanks.
Last edited by kineticturtle on Jun 1st '07, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.
Phortiphy
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Kinetic Turtle wrote:Actually I was quite a fan of the original, but one of the major problems with the map was the lack of interonnectedness of all those little pits. My version of the map turns all that space into a battleground, rather than just somewhere to fall to, get annoyed, and climb back out of.

But uh, thanks.
But that's the whole point of the map. clamber to the top. once you go down you can't get up, and once you get up you need to go up the stars to the rocket. [spnkr] It's all about climbing to the top, survival of the fittest, ect. Still, the new one brings something different. I think i'll regard them as seperite maps with separite uses. it's still very good.


and uh, your welcome
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kineticturtle
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Phortiphy wrote:It's all about climbing to the top, survival of the fittest, ect.
Right, the problem being that you spend all your goddamn time climbing, and not enough time fighting, which makes for a bad map. My version is much faster paced.
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RyokoTK
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It's all about climbing to the top, survival of the fittest, ect.
Except in Marathon, "survival of the fittest" has nothing to do with climbing to the top of anything (old Melatonin) and has everything to do with shooting other people (new Melatonin).
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epstein
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RyokoTK wrote:Except in Marathon, "survival of the fittest" has nothing to do with climbing to the top of anything (old Melatonin) and has everything to do with shooting other people (new Melatonin).
The Arbiter Hath Spoken!

Seriously, I think you all did a heck of a job with these maps. Still, they won't replace the old ones in toto. I, for one, enjoy the old Duality and I'm sure others have their tastes for old favorites as well (even if they are -sigh- Melatonin). To each his own, but I'm glad we have more options (and a version of Itchies that doesn't make me want to thwack the back of someone's head).
Last edited by epstein on Jun 1st '07, 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
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epstein wrote:The Arbiter Hath Spoken!

Seriously, I think you all did a heck of a job with these maps. Still, they won't replace the old ones in toto. I, for one, enjoy the old Duality and I'm sure others have their tastes for old favorites as well (even if they are -sigh- Melatonin). To each his own, but I'm glad we have more options (and a version of Itchies that doesn't make me want to thwack the back of someone's head).
SPLINE used to be huuuge and same-looking, right? or is that another user change?

cuz the new spline is sooo different, it needs a new name. Still, i'ts verrrry fast paced. whaha!
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RyokoTK
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Spline was rather mazy and very repetitive, yes.

You're right in that the new Spline and YAFNM don't properly reflect the old versions. That was a decision that I made, and I'm sticking by it. I still submit that neither old version had any redeeming qualities, so there was nothing for me to keep. Except the texture set.
I, for one, enjoy the old Duality and I'm sure others have their tastes for old favorites as well (even if they are -sigh- Melatonin).
I enjoy the old Morpfhine, La Cosa Nostra, 'Fugee Camp, and I'm sure a handful of others. Not all of the maps were unplayable. It's just that the project was comprehensive -- that was my goal -- and certainly all of the maps have their faults (yes, even Duality -- take that, treellama) that could stand to be addressed.

It's good to see that the project is so well-received, though. From the get-go I was worried that too many people were going to complain that we ruined the originals or that they were too sacred to touch, or something like that.
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epstein
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RyokoTK wrote:Spline was rather mazy and very repetitive, yes.

You're right in that the new Spline and YAFNM don't properly reflect the old versions. That was a decision that I made, and I'm sticking by it. I still submit that neither old version had any redeeming qualities, so there was nothing for me to keep. Except the texture set.
I think it was a reasonable choice to completely remake these maps for this project. However, the fact that the maps were bad didn't keep them from being fun imho. YAFNM was, granted, actually only gathered in LAN when we wanted to punish someone (I mean, come on, the creators knew it sucked - look at the title!), but Spline was an old favorite because it was so confusing and no one could really hold any ground. We used to absolutely adore that map for tag and ktmwtb. Not all maps need to be emfh all the time: that's a development that came with internet play more than anything else (why "Internet Killed the (Tag, KTMWTB, and KOTH) Stars" I'll never know).
It's good to see that the project is so well-received, though. From the get-go I was worried that too many people were going to complain that we ruined the originals or that they were too sacred to touch, or something like that.
If someone didn't like what you did to the maps they can refuse to play them. And/or they can gather only the originals. And/or they can incessantly complain during and after the games in the remodeled maps (just wait until I get gathered into a game of New Duality or Spline). But you didn't go through and erase the originals off everyone's computer, so it probably worked fine.
Last edited by epstein on Jun 2nd '07, 12:39, edited 1 time in total.
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RyokoTK
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that's a development that came with internet play more than anything else (why "Internet Killed the (Tag, KTMWTB, and KOTH) Stars" I'll never know).
You know, I've noticed that. Nobody ever plays any of those three modes, except KOTH occasionally. You can make an argument for Tag, but not Ball. It must be all the new people with no attention spans that just want to killkillkillkillkillkill and not learn anything new.
However, the fact that the maps were bad didn't keep them from being fun imho.
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. :P I've never had the benefit of playing Marathon on a LAN though, but I have played other games, and the difference is this: in a LAN, people are more willing to lose 'cause you're just hanging out with your friends and always trying to win is a good way to be a killjoy. On the Internet, though, that's not the case, so hosting a map to punish someone or to make that one guy feel bad is a good way to piss a lot of people off.
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epstein
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RyokoTK wrote:You know, I've noticed that. Nobody ever plays any of those three modes, except KOTH occasionally. You can make an argument for Tag, but not Ball. It must be all the new people with no attention spans that just want to killkillkillkillkillkill and not learn anything new.
Yeah, Tag was a completely different gamestyle: you learned how to play defensively (you were punished for suicides, and for diving into the fray without thinking). I miss it. Ball I don't miss so much, but it was always a good break in the middle of a bunch of hardnosed games.
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. :P I've never had the benefit of playing Marathon on a LAN though
Marathon on LAN is fantastic - you'll get to experience it on the sevens right? What you say is pretty accurate. The players vary from game to game. And people usually don't play A1 for 3 hours straight either, so you don't need to vary the type of game/map up. If we tried to play LAN for 3 hours without throwing in a few games of TAG or Carnage Soccer, I think everyone would go psycho.
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RyokoTK wrote:From the get-go I was worried that too many people were going to complain that we ruined the originals or that they were too sacred to touch, or something like that.
only me [MGrin]
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herecomethej2000
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epstein wrote:Yeah, Tag was a completely different gamestyle: you learned how to play defensively (you were punished for suicides, and for diving into the fray without thinking). I miss it. Ball I don't miss so much, but it was always a good break in the middle of a bunch of hardnosed games.
I agree compleetly, Infact I loved tag on LAN. and I wish it wern't taboo to host one on the Internet. True I understand what people were saying, with all the newbs around and the weakest player always the one becomes "it" leading to an, unballenced, and boring game of blasting/runing-from the newb. However, if you get some good players together on a small map with plenty of fragging and it got pretty interesting. Perhapse we shouldnt be afraid of hosting it, just be more selective with whom we let into our games evrey now and then. Lets face it, when the room is packed and people are trying to join in who do we let in the game first, our freinds and players we know are good, or some newb who we are unsure is going to stay connected in the first 15 seconds?
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kineticturtle
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Personally, I do try to be selective with whom I join into my games, depending on the game type, how bad I know certain people may lag, etc. That doesn't mean that I won't ever gather certain people though; but I'm very choosy about who I let into CTF games (or any team games, really), for example, because people dropping or lagging or just plain sucking can really kill the game easily, since we're all bound to each other in teams.
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epstein
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herecomethej2000 wrote:I agree compleetly, Infact I loved tag on LAN. and I wish it wern't taboo to host one on the Internet.
Yeah, the "knowing who to gather" issue is a complicated one. I recall that there were a couple attempts at "marking" experienced players (remember the [r] thing and clans?) so that gatherers could gather groups of people that were able to have more balanced games. Unfortunately, those sorts of things tend to be kind of exclusionary and offputting to new players who have a genuine interest in playing with experienced players and getting better. I imagine that if you went into the meta and made your name something like "herecomethej2000[TAG]" and advertised tag games you could get some... they might not be great, and you might have to roll your eyes at some new players who suicide and have no clue how to play, but you'd at least have games.

Another option might be to try to set something up outside the meta... has anyone ever had success with this? Say, announcing a time on IRC or something for a gathering of more experienced players for some more balanced games?

Of course, you could, like KT, take notice of who's around often, who's experienced, and who's on a good connection and just be selective.

My thoughts about this are kind of n00bish because I haven't really ever gathered online games, and I don't play very much anymore in general - not because of the dynamics of the game or the players but simply because my internet sucks and I'm sick of hosing everyone's games with my lag. If you do see me these days, I'm probably on a better connection (like at work) and would be happy to play TAG... just not every game.
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RyokoTK
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The two of you can take your childish bickering elsewhere. Posts deleted.
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