Zircons of Zeal

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.
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Dugit
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Here it is. More weapons and ammo; more creative texturing; better flow etc.
Please post any criticisms for when I make my next map: Aquamarines of Agony.

Vale,
Dugit
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treellama
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Are you going to make a separate thread for every net map you make?

:(
Last edited by treellama on Dec 18th '09, 00:59, edited 1 time in total.
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envy
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and stop it with the alliteration.
Si tratta di una lacrimosa.
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Wrkncacnter
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Treellama wrote:Are you going to make a separate thread for every net map you make?
How is that a problem?
Envy wrote:and stop it with the alliteration.
How is that a problem?
patrick
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beryls of boredom

turgid tungston

jaded jade

scurrilous schorls

scapolite scum

an asinine amethyst

carnelian catalepsis

rubellite rubinesque rubicelles

cairngorm cantmap

grossularite godddddd

periapts of please stop
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$lave
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This map sprawls way too much. The layout basically consists of one enormous open area with some hallways around it, which makes having any sort of concentrated battle extremely difficult. The flow is better in the sense that I'm not finding myself trapped or running into walls as often, but the map still really doesn't flow anyway.

Even if the map did have some sort of main area, I think it would still be way too big. I'd recommend trying to make maps which would work for 2 - 4 players first for awhile, try running around some of the [XS] or map in Red Spectrum and see how they flow, and about how big they are.

This map is also really bland, and the texturing is relatively poor. Stick to one texture set for now, the additional textures only makes this map look messy. There were a couple decent details in this map, but they were spread across such a vast, empty map that they didn't have much effect.

Also, it would be nice if you wouldn't add monsters to your maps. It makes the map a bit more difficult to navigate, and I don't think anyone plans on running around these maps to shoot aliens anyway.
Last edited by $lave on Dec 18th '09, 02:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugit
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I put them in incase people did for some odd reason. You could just turn them off if you (ever) netplay with it.

Edit: Here's a version that you can netplay with (below). The first release had only single player checked.
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RyokoTK
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Would you please put all of your maps in one topic?
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goran
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Why is it better to have all maps in one topic instead of separate topics?
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treellama
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Goran wrote:Why is it better to have all maps in one topic instead of separate topics?
Because then I only have to ignore (?troll) one topic.
Last edited by treellama on Dec 18th '09, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugit
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Good reason. [MErr]
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RyokoTK
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Goran wrote:Why is it better to have all maps in one topic instead of separate topics?
That way he's not inflating the topic list with every one of his corny level names, and I'd rather have one topic with lots of content than ten topics with very little.
Pfhriggin
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I like the exploration factor; I think this level would find a better place as part of a solo level.
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Dugit
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RyokoTK wrote:That way he's not inflating the topic list with every one of his corny level names, and I'd rather have one topic with lots of content than ten topics with very little.
According to these reviews there is little content even if it was horded. But anyway, the point still stands, and yeah, I'll just put my further Minerality maps in this thread, when they come out.

Pfhriggin wrote:I like the exploration factor; I think this level would find a better place as part of a solo level.
Yes, but the outer areas are a bit too huge unless you plan filling them with mindlessly huge battles, and I find them a little garish (unless done well, like in TGI's Sonic Firestorm), and easier than well planned smaller battles (again, unless planned well, like in Sonic Firestorm), as all you have to do with a big battle is run around it and they'll kill each other.

Edit: But yes, I think it would to well with a lesser monster volume.

Zircons of Zeal downloads wrote:downloads= 1
Has someone actually bothered to download this for netplay? Hurrah! [MGrin]


Vale,
Dugit
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 18th '09, 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
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RyokoTK
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Alright, time to address Minerality as a whole.

First of all, the presentation of the pack itself: merge it into one pack. Having a big jumble of loose single maps is really irritating when you're trying to browse for one in particular.

I'm mostly going to address Zircons of Zeal here. The detail in the actual geometry is fairly impressive, but the texturing and lighting is pretty awful. The lack of differential shading in the main space makes it difficult to judge the depth or size of the space, and just makes it generally unattractive. Additionally, the use of the same rock texture for most of the map really just sucks. In addition to that, the other textures you use don't really jive with each other, so it looks like you just randomly chose textures for most of the map.

For those two, I recommend reading these topics:
Differential shading and We need to talk.

As far as making netmaps goes, I can address a few other points:
1. All three of these maps are fairly spartan with the ammo, which in my experience is pretty much universally a bad thing for a netmap. It's important for weapons to be spread out so that it's easy to find them no matter where you spawn, and ammo should be available to keep most of them stocked up (perhaps not the shotguns and rockets, but the rest).
2. The flow in the main space is alright, but all of the secondary spaces are far too long and pointless. Submerged sections in netmaps never work well, and your corridors just tend to drift along and take very circuitous routes; basically, being in a side corridor on this map means you're not in the game, at all, and that's irritating both for the player himself and anyone else looking for him.
3. Tone down the use of powerups, especially the 2x cans, 2x recharger, and the invisibility powerups. Those should be rare. Especially when your map has as little ammo as it does, having that 2x available pretty easily makes you a very tough kill, which is pretty unnecessary.
4. Take out the monsters, dammit.

It's interesting that the architecture itself shows some care and precision, but the texturing and lighting don't reach the same level. Work on that, and start making smaller maps, because these are just unnecessarily large.

Veal,
TK.
Last edited by RyokoTK on Dec 19th '09, 02:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugit
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I'll merge it when I have enough maps (probably when the next one comes out, I'll merge them).

All points noted. "Aquamarines of Agony" will be smaller, piled high with ammo, etc. Thanks.
You liked the architecture? Really? [MGrin]

Vale,
Dugit
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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ellio7t
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I'm not going to reiterate what has already been said. Even though I want to.
A few ways to spruce up a map is breaking up a wall. That way instead of adding zig-zags and clunky pillar things in your halls you can just add some detailing and make it look nice.
Your main area is not so bad, but the ceiling is plain and too high.
You might want to consider breaking up the field with different heights. Nothing drastic, a .1 or .2 here and there helps add terrain.
Consider balconies instead of hallways that wind around so much. That way you get the players back on the field and have added sniper ledges.

I liked the broken fountain idea, needs a little more work. And the part with the multiple water flows is a bit hard on the eyes.
Its good you added a few areas to hide behind in the main field. They could use some polish.

Check the Mi net maps for some ideas. They are pretty good for beginners to pick up some basics.
words
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Dugit
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ellio7t wrote:I'm not going to reiterate what has already been said. Even though I want to.
A few ways to spruce up a map is breaking up a wall. That way instead of adding zig-zags and clunky pillar things in your halls you can just add some detailing and make it look nice.
Your main area is not so bad, but the ceiling is plain and too high.
You might want to consider breaking up the field with different heights. Nothing drastic, a .1 or .2 here and there helps add terrain.
Consider balconies instead of hallways that wind around so much. That way you get the players back on the field and have added sniper ledges.

I liked the broken fountain idea, needs a little more work. And the part with the multiple water flows is a bit hard on the eyes.
Its good you added a few areas to hide behind in the main field. They could use some polish.

Check the Mi net maps for some ideas. They are pretty good for beginners to pick up some basics.
Hmm... yeah. It's certainly better than my first two maps, about which I am proud, so I'm happy. I'll put these in my next map.
ellio7t wrote:balconies
aaarrgghh!! [MGross] [imwithstupid]

er, ahem. Do you mean just ledges? Please say you do?
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 19th '09, 19:11, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
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RyokoTK
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Check the Mi net maps for some ideas. They are pretty good for beginners to pick up some basics.
And loads of bad habits. The Inf netmaps got tons of things wrong. A few of the things I just criticized Dugit for are nearly omnipresent in stock maps too.

The pack Second Quest sought to fix a lot of those problems, which it did on some maps. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I would recommend looking at that as opposed to the stock maps themselves.

Vellum,
TK
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Dugit
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I don't really agree that monsters should fully be left out (as to not alienate those who do want them, and those who don't can just switch them off), but one of Infinity's stock maps, Delusions of Grandeur, actually left the MOAC in there!

Should I just make some personalized Duality parody?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
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$lave
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Dugit wrote:I don't really agree that monsters should fully be left out (as to not alienate those who do want them, and those who don't can just switch them off), but one of Infinity's stock maps, Delusions of Grandeur, actually left the MOAC in there!
You can only turn monsters off for netgames, the reason I want you to get rid of them is because it makes checking out your maps solo more tedious.
Dugit wrote:Should I just make some personalized Duality parody?
No.
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irons
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Dugit wrote:[...]one of Infinity's stock maps, Delusions of Grandeur, actually left the MOAC in there!
RyokoTK wrote:The Inf netmaps got tons of things wrong.
Dugit wrote:I don't really agree that monsters should fully be left out (as to not alienate those who do want them, and those who don't can just switch them off), but
We want monsters out of netmaps not because they're annoying in net games, but because the monsters make it a lot harder to look at the map in solo mode, which is how most of us evaluate which maps we want to host. In one of your levels, I kept getting killed by the BoBs before I could walk around that much. Anyone who doesn't have someone to play against in netgames would be far better off playing a real scenario rather than running around network levels with monsters.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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ellio7t
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ellio7t wrote:I'm not going to reiterate what has already been said. Even though I want to.
what a prick thing to say.
words
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RyokoTK
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Set A is the group of players that like to view maps in single player mode and find monsters prohibitive to that goal.

Set B is the group of players that like to play multiplayer with monsters.

Set C is the group of players that like to wander around and shoot monsters in multiplayer maps.

I'd wager Set A is larger than B. Set C should play single player instead.
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Dugit
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Oh, OK then. When I start on Aquamarines, I'll just remember not to put in monsters at all.

Even though I see myself as members of both group A and C.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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