Zircons of Zeal

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.
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$lave
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Dugit wrote:Oh, OK then. When I start on Aquamarines, I'll just remember not to put in monsters at all.
You can always put monsters in a copy of the map once you're done with it.
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Dugit
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$lave wrote:You can always put monsters in a copy of the map once you're done with it.
Yeah, OK then.
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Dugit
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I've decided to bump monsters altogether for this next release- the short and sweet map- Aquamarines of Agony. Here, I've uploaded the single map file alone below, but on Simplici7y (here), I've uploaded all four in a merged map file, and with a single read me.

Vale,
Dugit
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Aquamarines_of_Agony.sceA.zip
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ellio7t
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Dugit wrote:I've decided to bump monsters altogether for this next release- the short and sweet map- Aquamarines of Agony. Here, I've uploaded the single map file alone below, but on Simplici7y (here), I've uploaded all four in a merged map file, and with a single read me.

Vale,
Dugit
Here are just a few notes:
looks much better-flow makes more sense.
Visually this is much more appealing. Now try working on your shading-needs more differentiating. This will add more "pop" to your map, right now it looks a little flat.
water line is too low- getting out can take a second or two.
There are a few nooks that a player can get caught in if running. This will kill their flow(and perhapses them as well). Flow is an essential part of net gaming.
A couple of untextured polys on the sky.
Views seem a little obstructed- might just be me.
looking at it in forge it was sloppy. You are using more polys then you need. It looks like a spider web, try cleaning it up. This will give you more polys to work with latter and ease the strain on A1.
words
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Dugit
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OK, but, is it better generally than Zircons of Zeal? I'm really quite proud with my little waterfalls, and my discovery of transparent line-textures with transfer, but I need to know if it's an improvement, and what to improve, so I can implement it in my next map: Diamonds of Devastation.

However, I am having trouble with Atque. Although it "successfully" merged my folder-ful of maps (the folder disappeared; a map file with the correct name appeared), the new map file, however, contained only one level, and that was an "Untitled Level". When I tried to start the map, fearing the worst, it couldn't read the map file at all. What's going on? How on earth does Atque work?
Thus, I've reinstated the separate map files on Simplici7y, but only when I can find out how to merge.

Edit: And when I open the "merged" file in Weland, it crashes. The attached image is what Weland has to say.

Vale,
Dugit
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Picture_2.png
Picture_2.png (62.33 KiB) Viewed 6525 times
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 24th '09, 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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treellama
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Well, there's lots of problems here. Atque doesn't delete the folder when it merges maps, so it sounds like there is something bigtime wrong with your PC. It also doesn't generate MacBinary files, which is what Weland is choking on in that screenshot.

Make sure you have the files set up right, following the example in the manual. Maybe post a screenshot so we can tell you what you got wrong.
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Dugit
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Treellama wrote:Well, there's lots of problems here. Atque doesn't delete the folder when it merges maps, so it sounds like there is something bigtime wrong with your PC. It also doesn't generate MacBinary files, which is what Weland is choking on in that screenshot.

Make sure you have the files set up right, following the example in the manual. Maybe post a screenshot so we can tell you what you got wrong.
It didn't delete the folder; it didn't generate a MacBinary file- it generated a .sceA file, and that's what I put into Weland.
What manual? All I see is a GNU Public License Statement and a compiling readme. No manual.

Below is how I merged:
1) The folder in the top-left is dragged (the folder; not individual files) onto the Atque icon.
2) Then the folder disappeared (but was not deleted), and this little box came up.
3) This is what came up in Aleph One.
Attachments
Picture_14.png
Picture_14.png (54.73 KiB) Viewed 6526 times
Picture_9.png
Picture_9.png (1.46 MiB) Viewed 6526 times
Picture_2.png
Picture_2.png (1.26 MiB) Viewed 6526 times
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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irons
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Your map directory is not set up correctly. If you can't find the manual, use Atque to unmerge someone else's map pack and see how you need to structure things. Simply throwing the map files into a folder like that is incorrect.
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Dugit
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OK, so I unmerged a random map pack, and it came up with this:

Split Map Files

*open folder*

00 [name]
01 [name]
[etc]
Resources

(the numbered folders contained individual map files)
(the resources folder contained nothing)

So I'll just do that. What is the resources folder for? And where is the manual?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Dugit
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It works! I'll update it on Simplici7y.

Now, what about the new map? Better?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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$lave
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The areas I've circled are dead ends, and are what really hurt the flow in this map.



Overall it's an improvement, but there are still some issues.

The main problem is that the main area is way too big and takes up way too much of the map as a whole. There are only one or two other places you could really fight in this map, and lead to several dead ends.

Your texturing and lighting are still very bland. I'd still recommend sticking to one texture set, you have a tendency to toss in some textures (especially pfhor textures) which look bad and don't make sense. For the most part the lighting is too bright with little variation.
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Dugit
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$lave wrote:The areas I've circled are dead ends, and are what really hurt the flow in this map.



Overall it's an improvement, but there are still some issues.

The main problem is that the main area is way too big and takes up way too much of the map as a whole. There are only one or two other places you could really fight in this map, and lead to several dead ends.

Your texturing and lighting are still very bland. I'd still recommend sticking to one texture set, you have a tendency to toss in some textures (especially pfhor textures) which look bad and don't make sense. For the most part the lighting is too bright with little variation.
With the dead ends, I tried to negate that effect by putting weapons down the end and greatly elevating the ends so you didn't get stuck, but yeah, it still sucks.
The one on the far left, though, I can't really see anyone actually going to that back end; it's there for transition, but again, yeah, it still sucks.

Vale,
Dugit
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Jim
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For Aquamarines of Agony, try not to use every weapon. Also, don't ever use deep water, ever. It ruins flow and ruins the game for anyone who gets caught in it without an SMG.
Last edited by Jim on Dec 24th '09, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugit
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Jim wrote:For Aquamarines of Agony, try not to use every weapon. Also, don't ever use deep water, ever. It ruins flow and ruins the game for anyone who gets caught in it without an SMG.
Although I did put two SMGs in there (in the river), yeah, you still have a point. Thanks. What did you like?
Last edited by Dugit on Dec 24th '09, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Jim
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Dugit wrote:What did you like?
Honestly, there isn't really much to like. Most of the problems I have with it have already been addressed, so I won't go into detail.
I don't care anymore.
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envy
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less flatness.
Si tratta di una lacrimosa.
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ellio7t
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this is looking much better-the water falls are a nice touch.
If you must have hallways make them large enough for multiple players to fight in. No dead ends, no matter the prize(this is one of the problems from mi). It is called a DEAD end for a reason. Right now you have a simple arena, which sucks to fight in. There are tons of arena maps. Try breaking up the space, be creative. Check out Paradise Lost and how the maps use the area as a whole.
No submerging the player until you learn how to use it effectively.
Break up your walls with multiple textures and detailing. Check out the Jack Hammer preview for some excessive exaples of how this can be done(some good, most lame). Keep to one set at a time. Your improving, but are rushing through the map making process. It should be taking you hours to finish a map. Walk through it and look around a few days after you've made it. This way you can get a fresh look at it. Then edit accordingly. So far you have pumped out 4 maps that still need a lot of work and are deciding to make another?
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envy
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I often draft new ideas into completely new maps, which is what I think he is doing. First off, I hate editing already made maps. Usually I spend x amount of hours doing one map until I feel it complete, then I take a day and I make another one off the feedback and the new ideas.
Keep it up, they're really shaping up.
Si tratta di una lacrimosa.
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$lave
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Envy wrote:I often draft new ideas into completely new maps, which is what I think he is doing. First off, I hate editing already made maps. Usually I spend x amount of hours doing one map until I feel it complete, then I take a day and I make another one off the feedback and the new ideas.
This is a bad idea. When I came to the pfhorums with my first map, it was pretty much too large/awful to do anything with, so I did (and it was recommended that I) start on a new map altogether. After posting that map I made released several more versions of it based on the feedback I was getting before moving onto a new map, and I'd recommend that dugit works this way. Editing old maps may be a chore, but it's very beneficial. The problem with having Dugit work with the maps he's made so far is that they're way too big, but making a smaller map based on that design could still help.
Keep it up, they're really shaping up.
To be honest, they aren't. He's improving, but he still hasn't made anything desirable.
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envy
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im not saying theyre good, im just saying there has been plenty of improvement, hes just not out of the red yet. I guess we don't agree on the mapping stuff... eh...
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Dugit
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Hey, thanks all for the suggestions. I'll put them in my next map.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Dugit
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OK, I was very bored and slightly tipsy, so I somehow decided to add a heap more monsters to Zircons of Zeal. Haven't a clue why; it seemed like a good idea at the time. Anyway, I don't want it to go to waste, so I've added it to the unimap file as a separate map- Zircons of Zeal- Ultra. It works as a survival map.

Vale,
Dugit
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Dugit
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Just asking, but, would it be irritating to the net players if I made a net level which involves just punching?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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