Marathon Survival Project

Discuss map ideas, techniques, and give help.
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Dugit
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After being given the go ahead by Ryoko for this idea, I've brought it to the public. My idea is similar to Marathon XBLA Survival, in that the game will be never ending carnage. It's also similar to KTA, except you can never kill them all; it ends when you get bored. It'll be good for sharpening skills. I bring this to the community for a collaborative project, like KTA.

- Unlike KTA, I'm allowing custom physics in the maps, to allow for specialized enemies, or to have allies as enemies etc. I will also allow scripts with a map. All the aforementioned should be merged with the map.
- I'm also allowing custom textures, but no completely new enemies. In fact, I recommend using custom textures, but try not to go overboard; stay mainly with the Infinity textures. I will allow M2 textures instead of Infinity, but the M2 textures must be merged with the map if so.
- This project will use Marathon Infinity as the base platform.
- Generously recurring ammunition and powerups are required. I would prefer powerups to rechargers, because they are simply more convenient.
- Generously recurring enemies are required; I accept upward difficulty curves or just flat carnage, as do I allow cycles.
- The map must be for solo/coop only.
- Next to the map title, please put either [E] (easy), [A] (average), [D] (difficult), or [VD] (very difficult)- for example, Waterloo Waterpark [E]. I've put [A] for average instead of [M] for medium, because normal net maps already use [M] as part of a size guide.
- This is common sense really, but no terminals. If you want to include a saver, fine.
- Try to make an effort on the mapping side of things please too.

Email them to me at [email protected], or PM them to me and I will comment on them here, using the following marking system:

Gameplay /10
Level /10

Gameplay is for the enjoyment factor and the flow; level includes texturing, architecture, differential shading etc.
I'm planning on being part of the collaboration myself, but I will try not to be biased with my maps against others.

Any number of maps can be contributed.
I will allow anyone to contribute, but I will only allow the better maps as part of the final pack. The deadline is the end of March. So April 1st. If the deadline cannot be met, I'll extend it, but try not to leave it too late. Good luck. [MGrin]

Thanks in advance,
Dugit
Last edited by Dugit on Feb 8th '10, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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irons
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One word: SHLYCS.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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RyokoTK
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I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm some kind of one man pre-approval committee for community ideas. I don't know why Dugit thinks he needs my approval, but whatever. In any event, as a recommendation to you, Dugit, I would absolutely not bother to comment/grade/whatever other people's maps. That's going to scare people off, and if you want a collaboration, comparing different entries makes it more competitive than it sounds like you want. Just keep in touch privately on specific ways to improve the map.

When I thought about this idea in the past, back when XBLA Marathon came out, it seemed to me that the easiest/best way to make a good survival map is to have differently tiered levels of difficulty as the level moves on, because in the end you want people to lose. If the difficulty is static you can theoretically survive forever. Therefore, I would probably recommend having one of two ideas for staggering the enemy waves:
1) Have enemies spawn in closets that open up over time, thereby increasing the output of enemies as time increases.
2) Embed Lua to have a more rigidly defined and controlled spawning system.
irons wrote:One word: SHLYCS.
SHLYCS sucked balls and everyone knows it. Those were halfassed to the extreme.
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Dugit
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Oh, OK then. No public marking systems. I'll stay in touch via PMs.

I did mention difficulty curves, but I think I should take the chance here to say that they would be preferred, whether they be of monster volume or of slowly decreasing powerups, or whatever.
Is anyone interested at all?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Wrkncacnter
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Hi Ryoko, would it be OK with you if I told Dugit I'm not interested?
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goran
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It would be cool with a timer in the corner while playing survival maps. It could restart everytime you die. Something that helps you keep track of how long you survive...personal high scores...that sort of thing.
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Dugit
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W wrote:Hi Ryoko, would it be OK with you if I told Dugit I'm not interested?
Is anyone at all interested?
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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The Thug
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Go for it.
Childhood is not a race. It's a journey.
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RyokoTK
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Maybe if you had kicked off your topic with a map of your own, you'd look a little better. That way, it shows people:
1) What exactly you're looking for.
2) That you aren't some stupid slacker that isn't willing to put in the most effort as project leader to get stuff done.
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$lave
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I'd recommend doing this yourself, even if no one is willing to help with it. Before I even made netmaps I was making survival maps, and I think they're a pretty good way to get used to marathon's basic mechanics.
RyokoTK wrote:2) That you aren't some stupid slacker that isn't willing to put in the most effort as project leader to get stuff done.
Being left alone to complete DOOMWAD was a crushing experience for me, please don't make anyone else experience that.
Last edited by $lave on Feb 8th '10, 23:17, edited 1 time in total.
Fishman92
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Goran wrote:It would be cool with a timer in the corner while playing survival maps. It could restart everytime you die. Something that helps you keep track of how long you survive...personal high scores...that sort of thing.
That's a cool idea, i bet i'd be very simple to script aswell. People could maybe screenshot the timer when they die and post it to a high scores board? Anyway, interested!
riserobotrise
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Dugit wrote:My idea is similar to Marathon XBLA Survival, in that the game will be never ending carnage. It's also similar to KTA, except you can never kill them all; it ends when you get bored.
Dugit
this sounds like loads of fun, I bet it will be a popular coop game on maruisnet. I'd like to help out if you want a helping hand. I've briefly seen the survival videos on youtube, so I'm not sure what kind of maps they use. I was thinking about modifying aye mak sicur for a net game type of scenario, it might be a perfect addition to the project. Def we need to include the SMG for this one - and maybe bring in the gray suited pfhor as well.

I'll be interested to see how it turns out.
Last edited by riserobotrise on Feb 9th '10, 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: please don't quote giant blocks of text
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Horkeldorf
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Is there a deadline for when you want the maps? Cause I might be interested in mapping something for this but I know nothing of scripting.
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RyokoTK
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Horkeldorf wrote:Is there a deadline for when you want the maps?
Oh, come on. It's in BOLD for crying out loud.
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Horkeldorf
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RyokoTK wrote:Oh, come on. It's in BOLD for crying out loud.
Well whatdya know... there was a deadline. I feel like an ass now.
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Shadowbreaker
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The Rubicon Network Map (old and new) is full of maps like these, filled with craploads of endless monsters and gunz, all presented in an arena where you can just kill stuff. Sadly, they tend to get old after a while, but maybe thats probably just because the Rubicon maps werent meant for it.

EDIT: And Chris once made an attempt to make these maps, however un-networkable, Infinity maps (and I played some), but he never finished it.
Last edited by Shadowbreaker on Feb 9th '10, 05:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Dugit
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I said I do actually plan to contribute; I'm halfway through my first map, and I'll start a couple more next week, which is half-term for my school (one week holiday).

So some people are interested? Awesome. Just PM me or email me the maps, and we'll talk more.

I did play the Rubicon Network Maps as survival maps (I loved Sheer Winds and Lab Vermin), but they did get old quickly- Rubicon doesn't seem the scenario for that kind of carnage. That's why I'm leaving it on the Infinity platform, with any carnage boosting physics or scripts allowed.
Last edited by Dugit on Feb 9th '10, 07:21, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Dugit
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Oh- polygon limit.

I will accept any number of polygons, as long as the map isn't slowed down in any way, but try to keep the playable map open and primed for carnage.
Last edited by Dugit on Feb 9th '10, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Dugit
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OK, forget about the project. We have all we need in the Survival.lua script (thanks to Megabyte for saving us all this trouble).
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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irons
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A general script is no match for specialized levels. I have no interest in this idea, but there is a lot to be said about making new levels based on a script.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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megabyte
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Dugit wrote:OK, forget about the project. We have all we need in the Survival.lua script (thanks to Megabyte for saving us all this trouble).
Just remember that I never said you can distribute the script.
Its just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
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goran
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Megabyte wrote:Just remember that I never said you can distribute the script.
Why would you create a script and then don't want people to distribute it?
Last edited by goran on Feb 15th '10, 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
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megabyte
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This way an old or bad version will not be distributed when the script is updated and the pack is not. They can link it in the read me or description.
Its just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Favorite quote
ASYMPOTATOES http://asympotatoes.blogspot.com/
[viral]
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Dugit
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Megabyte wrote:This way an old or bad version will not be distributed when the script is updated and the pack is not. They can link it in the read me or description.
That's fine. Thanks, Megabyte.
Polyplicity my second (less sucky) net pack. Go on. Download it. You know you don't want to.
Marathon Aeon- My scenario in the works ~on Simplici7y

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Vladtepes
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Hi all!
This is exactly the kind of project I want to work on, but not really as a mapper since I am pretty terrible at mapping [MFrown] I have been thinking about scripted survival maps since the first time I played Marathon XBLA, but never took the time to work on it seriously. With Megabyte's script and its problems, I decided it was the right time for it.

The main problem behind survival lua gametype is monster spawning. There are several ways to solve that problem: random spawning, specifying spawning polygon zones or giving precise spawn locations.

Megabyte chose to use a random spawning system. While this system is extremely powerful (just look at left 4 dead) because mappers have little work to do to adapt, it is extremely hard to code in an efficient way (especially if you want enemies to spawn in "logical" locations)

The other two systems require more work for the mappers but is is easier to have a nice result overall, especially using precise spawn locations since it is possible to set the direction a monster is facing, or is height... It requires however some hard work on spawns too since Aleph One lua currently does not have control over monster spawns.

I found some kind of hack to make that possible, using teleport in / deaf / blind enemies that never get activated. I made a nice polished spawn system that distribute enemies on spawns to accommodate any kind and/or number of enemies without piling them. The core of the script is very flexible so the mapper can not only define what will spawn each wave, but also how many different kind of spawn points there will be and which enemies will spawn in them.

The script is nothing close to be finished, only the spawning system is done nicely. It comes embedded in a (very) small net map to test it.

Feel free to give it a run and to split it to read the script. I'll had more details later.


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