5D-space 'trap'

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ktaur
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My apologies if this has already been addressed, but i couldn't seem to find anything. i've had this problem in the past, and i've always found some compromise around it, but in the current situation, the only compromise ruins the effect.

Let me back up for a sec.

Okay...so i've created a 'tube' lift elevator. It's a 'round' platform surrounded by an ~.125WU wall of negative space, so as to resemble a pillar from floor to ceiling, with an opening in the side at each height for the player to enter/exit. At the top, the 'pillar' is in the middle of the room, such that when the player exits the elevator, he can walk all the way around the elevator column.

My problem is that once you enter the elevator on the 'ground' floor, you cannot exit again. You can ride the elevator to the top and exit through the other opening, but you cannot exit through the opening you came in; it's as if there's an invisible wall blocking your way.

If i delete the polygons that make up the space around the elevator on the upper story, the problem goes away. However, i'd like to preserve that space.

Does anybody have an explanation of what's going on, or a fix for this type of problem?

Thanks in advance.
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treellama
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No, that won't work. You can only connect two polygons to a line--elevator and ground floor, or elevator and first floor.
Last edited by treellama on Sep 7th '10, 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
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BoBsBrother
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This same thing has happened to me, except it doesn't go away when I delete anything. When you started texturing, at first was it a paradox where you couldn't even go into the elevator? This is how it started for me.
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tehWastedJamacan
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You're tryin somethin like this?
D?rovací tvá?í.
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thermoplyae
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I don't know how to fix it since I've never really mapped, but I know what you're talking about. For tl's benefit, here's a picture:

[attachment=4240:worstmap.png]

The bottom trapezoid is the ground floor, the adjoining rectangle is a bridge to the square elevator, which is attached to the red path at higher elevation. You can't pass through the line joining the trapezoid and the rectangle after you texture the high wall on the south side.

p.s. please don't steal doy's avatar, that's personal
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dude, seriously. dude.
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ktaur
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thermoplyae wrote:p.s. please don't steal doy's avatar, that's personal
doy's avatar?
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ktaur
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WastdJamacan wrote:You're tryin somethin like this?
Thanks. i'll check it out.
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tehWastedJamacan
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I just made it real quick in Weland after I read your topic. Tell me if it works like you want it to.
D?rovací tvá?í.
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ktaur
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WastdJamacan wrote:I just made it real quick in Weland after I read your topic. Tell me if it works like you want it to.
Thanks for the example, but turns out that's not really what i'm going for. The elevator i'm trying to debug is not a multi-stop, and thus the problem isn't the inherent floor-height discrepancy that multiplies at each stop. The issue is that AO seems to be interpreting the 'upper storey' (where the player can walk completely around the elevator 'tube') as a solid wall when trying to exit the elevator on the ground floor.

i don't have the map with me right now, but i'll try to post it. Sorry...this one's kinda difficult to explain...me and my overzealous architectural endeavours...
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ellio7t
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comment void- i need to skim better if i'm going to post or perhaps read the whole thing.
Last edited by ellio7t on Sep 14th '10, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
words
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ktaur
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i had been trying to think of an example from another map, implemented without the problem in question. i just thought of one--Aye Mak Sicur has an elevator at its centre that is very similar to what i'm attempting to do. Of course, no sticky walls there...
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thermoplyae
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so, what i posted. eat it, tl
dude, seriously. dude.
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treellama
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thermoplyae wrote:so, what i posted. eat it, tl
Congratulations! You understand K'taur better than I do.

Posting a screenshot from Forge or Weland would help, then one of us (probably Goran) could mark up what needs to change.
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irons
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I'm disappointed that this thread was not about our sacred lady Bridget twisted in some kamasutric position.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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goran
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K wrote:My apologies if this has already been addressed, but i couldn't seem to find anything. i've had this problem in the past, and i've always found some compromise around it, but in the current situation, the only compromise ruins the effect.

Let me back up for a sec.

Okay...so i've created a 'tube' lift elevator. It's a 'round' platform surrounded by an ~.125WU wall of negative space, so as to resemble a pillar from floor to ceiling, with an opening in the side at each height for the player to enter/exit. At the top, the 'pillar' is in the middle of the room, such that when the player exits the elevator, he can walk all the way around the elevator column.

My problem is that once you enter the elevator on the 'ground' floor, you cannot exit again. You can ride the elevator to the top and exit through the other opening, but you cannot exit through the opening you came in; it's as if there's an invisible wall blocking your way.

If i delete the polygons that make up the space around the elevator on the upper story, the problem goes away. However, i'd like to preserve that space.

Does anybody have an explanation of what's going on, or a fix for this type of problem?

Thanks in advance.
This problem is too advanced to be solved from your descriptions of it. Please upload the map if you're serious about getting help.
Last edited by goran on Sep 9th '10, 02:29, edited 1 time in total.
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irons
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Unfortunately I'm not in a position to look this up or illustrate it right now, but maybe you'll know what I mean, Goran. I think this is a derivative of thr parallel line "teleporting" effect (described, I think, in the Forge manual?): too many lines in the same direction cause the player to appear spontaneously in non-contiguous coordinates. When you throw mixed heights in, the result is that the engine won't let you pass a line because it is erroneously trying to place you past the height difference. So it's a case of the engine applying normal operation to a malfunction (in our view). Ryoko helped me fix this in an early Azure Dreams map, so I thought he'd catch the similarities here. When he didn't, I thought I had misunderstood. With no other explanation being offered, I'm wondering if you guys can look up the manual or Hastur or wherever that parallel line thing is addressed, and if you can confrim or deny if that is the problem here.

Edit: the one-way nature of the obstruction makes me think I'm right.
Last edited by irons on Sep 9th '10, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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Bridget
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irons wrote:I'm disappointed that this thread was not about our sacred lady Bridget twisted in some kamasutric position.
I too find this disappointing. Perhaps the people here are starting to forget about me, since I'm not here as often as I used to be...
Alan wrote:QUOTE(Alan @ Feb 1 2008, 08:14 PM) Also why is Bridget a guy yet he looks so pretty?
Image
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irons
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u r in my heart 4eva
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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irons wrote:Unfortunately I'm not in a position to look this up or illustrate it right now, but maybe you'll know what I mean, Goran. I think this is a derivative of thr parallel line "teleporting" effect (described, I think, in the Forge manual?): too many lines in the same direction cause the player to appear spontaneously in non-contiguous coordinates. When you throw mixed heights in, the result is that the engine won't let you pass a line because it is erroneously trying to place you past the height difference. So it's a case of the engine applying normal operation to a malfunction (in our view). Ryoko helped me fix this in an early Azure Dreams map, so I thought he'd catch the similarities here. When he didn't, I thought I had misunderstood. With no other explanation being offered, I'm wondering if you guys can look up the manual or Hastur or wherever that parallel line thing is addressed, and if you can confrim or deny if that is the problem here.

Edit: the one-way nature of the obstruction makes me think I'm right.
Without seeing a screenshot or map, I would guess that's not the issue. K'taur described the platform and surrounding space as a round tube, which probably means not many parallel lines.

I see one unlikely possibility that nevertheless hasn't been asked: did you ever make a transparent line solid and then forget about it? This could cause a one-way problem as you describe.
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goran
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irons wrote:I think this is a derivative of thr parallel line "teleporting" effect (described, I think, in the Forge manual?): too many lines in the same direction cause the player to appear spontaneously in non-contiguous coordinates.
These are the links you wanted:

http://webwonks.org/Marathon/Forge/hasturs...op/busted3.html
http://webwonks.org/Marathon/Forge/hasturs...op/things2.html
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irons
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Thanks, Goran. Crater Creator, you might be right, but K'taur is leaving us hanging so bad.
underworld : simple fun netmaps // prahblum peack : simple rejected netmaps
azure dreams : simple horrible netmaps // v6.0!!!: thomas mann's greatest hits : simple simple netmaps
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ktaur
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Bad form, methinks...posting a question and leaving everyone "hanging so bad" (i hear ya, irons). My apologies...the self-flagellation will proceed shortly.

i've attached the map as it currently exists. Please pardon the dust...and the random geometry...and the odd texturing. This is obviously very under construction...

Thanks.
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goran
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Hey, you may have a chance at becoming the community's next great mapper. It's by far the most interesting mapping I've seen from a new mapper in a long time.
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treellama
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G.S.10 wrote:Hey, you may have a chance at becoming the community's next great mapper. It's by far the most interesting mapping I've seen from a new mapper in a long time.
What
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goran
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Treellama wrote:What
I see he has potential. Don't you?
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