Gorans Highres Infinity Textures

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treellama
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Maybe this will help, if not disregard it.

Marathon typically considers lights as "on" at 70% intensity. So, I think you should see some bloom at that intensity. You could make it half as much as you see at 100% intensity, if you want to be subtle.

Levels I remember have cool and easily accessible lighting effects:
Ne Cede Malis
Acme Station
Strange Aeons: when you power up the AI cells.

Net map packs with good lighting:
Coriolis Loop
Paradise Lost
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Hopper
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Quartz is right if you're modeling lens artifacts due to contrast, but light scattered by airborne dust or fog would also be pretty prevalent in Infinity's environments. On the abandoned Jjaro space station, I can practically taste the dust, so it seems wrong to me not to have every little light creating a glow in the air. This is a different lighting phenomenon entirely, but bloom can be used to fake it in a pinch.

Given that most levels are fairly dark indoor environments, I'd think dust or fog scatter would be the dominant effect for textures that depict a light source. Quartz' settings work quite well for daytime landscapes and reflected light outdoors: I used those rules to great effect playing with Rubicon's "Molten Dihydrogen Monoxide", a level with a mix of bright sun and deep shade. For something like Ne Cede Malis, that amount of contrast doesn't exist, but you have a different lighting situation that happens to benefit from a bloom-like treatment.

The atmosphere of Pfhor ship interiors is open to interpretation, so it's your call. I think it might be humid in there with all that goo, in which case a little scatter from vapor in the air would be appropriate, but regardless of bloom I'm thrilled to see this set on S7. :D
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quartz
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of course, having said "for clarification" I promptly screwed up my post because I confused two things I was talking with him about.

what I actually recommended was:

- the glow_image parts of textures should start at 80% wall, and max at 30% bloom.
- the normal_image parts of textures should start at 90% wall and max at 10% bloom.

goran disagreed with me on the second one though.

I do use ne cede as one of the main test maps when messing with bloom stuff. having a dim texture blooming just looks really wrong to my eyes. the dust thing is a valid point and one I used in one of my debates with goran, but considering you can't change the bloom per-level and that not all levels make sense having dust, I felt that 80% was the happy medium.

one thing that would be a nice-to-have here would be if the bloom changed according to mml fog.
Last edited by quartz on Aug 4th '11, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz
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oh also: goran: the antelope canyon pic hopper linked to has a good demo of the "sunlight shining on the floor causing bloom" thing I was arguing for re: the normal_image settings.
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goran
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Bump maps are coming.
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Last edited by goran on Aug 6th '11, 13:04, edited 1 time in total.
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I love it! I know bump maps are hardly new at this point, but it's still exciting to see. I especially like the parallax on the left texture, where you can see the top face of the bottom slats but not the top slats. I still think some of your edges are too sharp and chiseled - in this screenshot, mostly on the right side texture. But hey, when the biggest shortcoming I see is the lack of ambient occlusion, that's a huge step forward.

Speaking of which, here's a side-by-side mockup of how it'd look if the floor had ambient occlusion. It helps with the interface between wall and floor, and it's independent of light sources so it just might be feasible for a shader at some point.
[attachment=5016:mock_AO.jpg]
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I've been using these since goran finished the Pfhor set. They're so good, and goran's so committed to improving them, I felt each texture deserves a proper critique. Unfortunately I haven't found the time to do that yet, but I have put together a giant comparison image that will help me and others that want to do so for the first set.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/w...comparison.png/ (5 MB image)
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6199/watercomparison.png (direct link)

The original textures are 128x128, and goran's are 512x512, so these 256x256's split the difference (and keep the file size from being too humongous). Hopefully I can do the other sets later, and provide the actual feedback.
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goran
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Please use this updated image of Crators comparison. It adds a third row with 2.0 versions. I work with all sensible feedback.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/785119/newnew.jpg
Last edited by goran on Sep 7th '11, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
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This isn't really helpful feedback, but the third row is a big improvement!
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I agree. From closeby, the 3rd row looks more realistic, and when you zoom out, it looks more like the first row. Twice nice!
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I'm liking the improvements on (from 0) textures 11, 15, 19 so far! I also like that you've improved on the original Pattern Buffer image.

I think texture 28 could be a bit brighter still, and texture 07 (the platform one) could be improved. The original always makes me want to eat a Triscuit. :P Also, there's a bright strip in the shadow of the inactive recharger rings. (The switches, rechargers, and texture 07 don't have a 3rd texture, so you may not have finished them yet?)

This plugin is looking more and more awesome. Keep up the good work! [MUp]
Last edited by President People on Sep 7th '11, 17:39, edited 1 time in total.
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goran
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Thanks for letting me know what you think of the textures. Even just saying that you like them is helpful. Lets me know I'm on the right track ;)

President People, yes, the black texture is not done yet for 2.0. It's a hard nut to crack. Neither are the switches or rechargers. They will all be redrawn from scratch. I'll make sure to fix that bright strip when I get to them.
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brilliant
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I recently downloaded all of your sets, Goran! I can't play with them regularly because my computer is old and it lags with them on, but I was able to check them out. They look wonderful, and the Landscapes look especially nice! I am very impressed by the third row in that picture for the water set. They all are a good improvement, and I am happy to see that you changed the "Save Game" texture back to the original image of the compiler.

I did run into a problem with the Jjaro set, however. Every time I loaded a map with Jjaro textures, my Aleph One would crash, both on the stable build and the beta. I don't understand it either, because I figure so many people have already tried it out and they would have noticed it. I'm running it under OpenGL (classic). If you (or Treellama) need any other information, or the crash log, let me know.

Thank you so much for these texture sets, Goran!
Last edited by brilliant on Sep 8th '11, 02:44, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm being very verbose here - wall of text ahead.


0 & 1 - I think the wires around the uplink chip are flatter than you've made them. The gray background of the border also has more of a pattern to it than the solid background you have. I think the bevel on the yellow square ring is sharper than I'd expect - not too big or too small, just overly sharp. The 'slider' area that changes between 0 and 1 is nearly black, whereas in the original you could see some detail. The largest round piece in the bottom half is substantially different - in the original it looks like a multi-segmented ring around the center, with a red line circumscribing it. The largest rectangular bit in those wires looks to me like it has a glass case protecting some of the wires, but in yours with the greenish tint it looks more like a display screen to me. In the destroyed version, I might suggest more contrast, with some areas staying light and others that have clearly burned out. Right now it's sort of uniformly darker. Lastly, I hope you'll bring over any improvements to 6 over to this image.

2 & 3 - The brown background is notably darker in yours than in the originals. There are some differences in the ridges - the originals have a notch in the center of the right and top sides I don't see in the new ones. I notice your oxygen is more of a pure blue than the original, which is basically cyan. The original shield rechargers have an inner gray ring that to me looks like a jack you could stick a plug into. Yours are slightly larger, and have a distinct bezel I don't see in the original. The bezel also strongly implies a light direction, which is likely to look off since most rechargers are in bright, recessed panels. The original oxygen panel has what I can only describe as a nipple-shaped protuberance in the center, whereas your seems to have a slight raised surface with a letter G (G for Goran, perhaps? [MSmile] ). The little widget in the upper right of the oxygen recharger has that same sharp bezel, and the background in that quadrant seems to have more circuitry overall. Lastly, there's a diamond-shaped chip in each of the inactive rechargers - is this a deliberate effect?

4 - Looks pretty spot on. I might work a little more on the red bulb on the right side of the pattern buffer, and I think your earlier version better showed the subtle vertical banding in the background stonework. I especially like the improvements to the beveling, how it's softer/more eroded now.

5 - This looked pretty good already, but I can see the difference you made with the added striations. For me the most important thing with this texture is that it tile well when used across a large area, as this is probably the best base stone texture in the set for that purpose.

6 - Again, the bevel is better now. For the vent in the lower right, it looks to me like the original tried to include a lighting effect, where the top half of the vent is more in shadow than the bottom half. For a lot of textures in general, you can see a faint underlying pattern of vertical and horizontal bands, most noticeably in 17 and 28. By my interpretation, that's what's going on here in 6. It seems in your interpretation you're accounting for the same thing with soft variation in brightness.

7 - Darn, now I can't un-see the triscuit comparison [MTongue] . I don't think of this as a black texture; I think of it as a solid mechanical texture. The original has quite a bit more bright pixels, which to me are shiny bits of metal at the right angle to glint. Overall, I see it as a block of metal that has grooves worn into it every which way. Yours seems more like a mesh of overlapping strands of metal.

8 - It looks like the original uses slightly redder tones, and you're using slightly yellower tones. The glow effect on the lights would ideally be accomplished mostly through the glow map, so I'm glad you toned down the glow faked into the diffuse map. Other than that, this texture is largely dependent on 14, the base.

9 - Basically everything I said about 8 applies here.

10 - And here, except also...you added the bowl shape around the light, which is great. You also picked up on there being a rim around the bowl, which is also nifty. However, I don't think the dark circle separating the two is necessary.

11 - What I said about 6 applies here, naturally. I see you've now got the secondary tiling pattern basically showing with gray pixels. I might make this secondary pattern stand out just a little more than it does now.

12 - In the green part of the original, I see a pattern of darker streaks that angles down and to the right. In the gray/white part, it looks to me like the alien text is painted on, whereas yours is very crisp for a more laser-etched look.

13 - To my mind the original isn't as flaky and fibrous as you've made yours. I think there's too much contrast in your version.

14 - This texture's always looked woody to me, but not the kind of burled wood it seems you're going for. Much of what I said about 6 and 11 applies - the self-shadowing on the vent, and the pattern of banding. When that banding pattern turns into soft variation in the brightness, it comes off as though the texture is being lit unevenly.

15 - Same comments as 10. The pattern of four brighter rectangles in the center circle seems to blend in less than it did in the original

16 - Another one where the glow map should cause most of the bloom. In the bottom half, it seems like there's more detail in the inset panels of the original than comes through in the new version, and the dimensions may be off at the bottom edge of said panel.

17 - I mentioned earlier, I love what you've done to incorporate the pattern of rectangles I feel is a critical part of this texture's character. The grooves seem a little sharper than they need to be - they could be larger but shallower/more eroded.

18 - A solid improvement over what you had before - the lighting's better and you incorporated those stray strips of gray pixels in a way that makes sense. My earlier comment about the vent applies to the one on the right side of this texture. Any updates to 23 should make it into this texture as well.

19 - The water looks gorgeous. Even though the shape is completely different you maintained the style perfectly. I'd be curious to know your technique. I do remember this and other liquids look too opaque in game to my mind - I would increase the transparency for all liquids.

20 - Like in 8, I think the highlights in the original are redder while yours are yellower. I'd brighten the blue parts a bit more. I think this texture has more in common with 11 than it does with 14, so I would've used that as the starting point (14 is used as the base in enough textures anyway).

21 - The bluish background is improved. It looks to me like the bolt holes in the original, if they can be called that, are actually indentations, while I think yours looks more like a flat surface with thin ring-shaped grooves cut into it. There's some additional cracks and a strand of green material on the right side that it'd be good to show.

22 - The bevel, color, and finish are improved over the last version. The vent should have the kind of self-shadowing I mentioned before. The original has three rectangles in the upper left beige inset, kind of shaped like a cigarette symbol, which is missed in your versions.

23 - Again, there's a pattern of darker angled streaks in the original. There's also an irregular scratch or similar in the left half of the original. Lastly, I think you can make out some dark green vertical bands in the under layer of the original that aren't as visible in the new one.

24 - Maybe the bolt holes should have some stress marks, since if you look closely a bluish gray color is used around some of those holes. To my eyes, the four horizontal bands bulge out a little bit, and their edges are rounder than you have them.

25 - As in 6, the shape of the background is improved. It may be more consistent to keep the subtle striped pattern in the glass oriented the same way throughout this texture, rather than rotating it for the upper left quadrant.

26 - Same comments as 18. Since this one has fewer components, I think it all looks great the way it is.

27 - I see the dish behind the light as a little rusty/discolored, but I may be reading too much into the 256 color palette of the original. Otherwise comments on 16 (check the bottom edge of the inset panel) and 21 apply here.

28 - Same comments as 17.

29 - The gray ring around the center brown circle seems extra thick in yours. You may also slightly brighten the dark green bottom inset panel, as per 23.
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goran
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Thanks for the feedback Crater Creator! :)

I will read the appropriate feedback when I work on each texture. Reading it all now, doing comparisons, deciding on changes, explaining any disagreements/agreements....well, it takes a lot of time! But rest assured that I will work through your feedback and make changes where I think your judgement is correct.
Last edited by goran on Sep 8th '11, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Love these! Very much in keeping with the originals, which is how I prefer it.
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Very impressive work goran. These are really turning out to be the best replacements out there in both quality and faithfulness to the originals. The improvements made in the third row are awesome. The only thing that I, personally would like to see improved on is in number 12. The engraved symbols seem to clean to me. In the original it looks like they've taken some wear and tear. It'd be nice to see them worn away a bit. I wouldn't even mind doing it myself if you were willing to send the psd. But that's your call. I don't want to steal your thunder!
Last edited by TychoVII on Sep 8th '11, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
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brilliant
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brilliant wrote:If you (or Treellama) need any other information, or the crash log, let me know.
I'm guessing there isn't anyone that can help me until I post more information, so attached below is the crash while running Goran's Jjaro set. I wasn't sure whether to post it on SourceForge or not because of the possibility of it being a problem with the plugin and/or files, or a problem with my settings, instead of Aleph One. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[attachment=5238:jjarosetcrashlog.zip]
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treellama
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brilliant wrote:I'm guessing there isn't anyone that can help me until I post more information, so attached below is the crash while running Goran's Jjaro set. I wasn't sure whether to post it on SourceForge or not because of the possibility of it being a problem with the plugin and/or files, or a problem with my settings, instead of Aleph One. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[attachment=5238:jjarosetcrashlog.zip]
That crash is in the Intel graphics driver. There's a reason we recommend AMD or nVidia graphics :)

Make sure you have the latest drivers, but you're probably out of luck unless you can replace the card.
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goran
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Thanks TychoVII.

Send me your email through a pm and you'll have the PSD shortly.
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brilliant
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Treellama wrote:That crash is in the Intel graphics driver. There's a reason we recommend AMD or nVidia graphics :)

Make sure you have the latest drivers, but you're probably out of luck unless you can replace the card.
Wow, that was fast! It looks like I don't have the latest driver, but you're right, I probably will be out of luck. So weird that it only happens with that set. Thank you, Treellama!
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goran
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brilliant wrote:Wow, that was fast! It looks like I don't have the latest driver, but you're right, I probably will be out of luck. So weird that it only happens with that set. Thank you, Treellama!
That set uses more textures than the other sets (35 vs 30). Could that be the cause?
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brilliant
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Well, it turns out I did have the latest version, and Intel had marked the wrong date and version posted on their web site, easily confusing me, so no luck in getting it to run. :P
goran wrote:That set uses more textures than the other sets (35 vs 30). Could that be the cause?
Yeah, that could be it, my graphics card just can't handle that many textures. :)
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treellama
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brilliant wrote:Well, it turns out I did have the latest version, and Intel had marked the wrong date and version posted on their web site, easily confusing me, so no luck in getting it to run. :P
Yeah, that could be it, my graphics card just can't handle that many textures. :)
Try setting your wall texture quality to High.
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brilliant
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Treellama wrote:Try setting your wall texture quality to High.
Yes, that worked! I tested all the settings in that field, and any setting below the High setting will not crash, and any setting above the High setting still crashes. Thank you, I will look over those settings more closely next time.
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