Lightmapping (Optional)

Have a question, suggestion, or comment about Aleph One's features and functionality (Lua, MML, the engine itself, etc)? Post such topics here.
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Meerjel01
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Already said it once but I would want to say it twice as a request. Can Aleph One get lightmapping as an optional system like in Rebel Moon Rising? It has been said once in another topic about jumping and it was declined.


So let me try to convince someone to put it in the/another engine. It might be too new to Aleph One but Rebel Moon is also an old game that used a weaker than today techniques. So I would just suggest making the lightmap system primitive so it doesn't change the engine's theme. Put lighting in Weland and see. how it could look cause I'm sure it's still is gonna look retro as before.



I request this cause I'm not a good programmer and so I could (Maybe) make Rebel Moon on the Aleph One engine.
Meerjel01
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Eh I might start on my own website again.

Also. It is required that my profile here gets removed. Not suspended cause I need a long break from messing with people's emotions.
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Lion O Cyborg
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Meerjel01 wrote:Already said it once but I would want to say it twice as a request. Can Aleph One get lightmapping as an optional system like in Rebel Moon Rising? It has been said once in another topic about jumping and it was declined.


So let me try to convince someone to put it in the/another engine. It might be too new to Aleph One but Rebel Moon is also an old game that used a weaker than today techniques. So I would just suggest making the lightmap system primitive so it doesn't change the engine's theme. Put lighting in Weland and see. how it could look cause I'm sure it's still is gonna look retro as before.



I request this cause I'm not a good programmer and so I could (Maybe) make Rebel Moon on the Aleph One engine.
Would this include colored lighting and such ala the Build Engine? Hell yes! Alongside jumping and crouching from Damage Incorporated, that's something I want as well, though I sadly can't code either, outside basic HTML and CSS. I find it rather disheartening that people here like to pooh-pooh good ideas for engine updates partially due to laziness and partially because it "wouldn't be true to the original".

Who cares if it isn't true to the original? The updates we did get on Aleph One aren't and I should know, as the original graphics quality of the second and third games on Classic Mac looked like arse compared to the Build Engine (going by Infinity's release), and Marathon 1 had the Magnadoodle HUD. The former I know thanks to DI on Windows and the original versions of the ios ports (where the HD mode was a micropayment for some weird reason).

I was going to play my OSX copies of Marathon 2+3 with HD graphics (sans monsters) off in order to see if the sourceport at least makes them look less Tetris-esque than the original engines, but I do still prefer the HD textures. Marathon 1 certainly looks good with classic textures on Aleph One so my hopes are up.

Not to mention nowadays, Aleph One's Microsoft native companions have enough updates to make beautiful looking and playing games equal to Marathon's quality, such as these:

https://youtu.be/bTvfhLMNOCQ

https://store.steampowered.com/app/562860/Ion_Fury/

It's only fair that Aleph One gets updated to their level so something just as beautiful but for the Marathon engine can be made, free or even a paid for game like Hedon and Ion Maiden. If Aleph One did get something like that, I'd buy that for a dollar! Or £17 or more. The most we have to show sans the best Marathon mods (which are better than the games I'm about to list) are Excalibur on an outdated Aleph One version with less quality of life improvements, and abandonware copies of Damage Incorporated, both Windows like my one and Classic Mac.
Meerjel01
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Yes some support! But surely it wouldn't be Marathon if it had light mapping. As said. It's optional.

Having the AvP feel in the engine would be better for me. I preferring atmosphere mostly over action and Marathon could be more based on that rather than following the Doom fashion which was the reason it was called a clone by others. I'm a sucker for Marathon's atmosphere and it could be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFjpce4 ... ML&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB_xuB4 ... ML&index=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7FzWB4 ... ML&index=6

If light-mapping is still denied then at-least add coloured lighting. Something rather than nothing.
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Lion O Cyborg
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Meerjel01 wrote:Yes some support! But surely it wouldn't be Marathon if it had light mapping. As said. It's optional.

Having the AvP feel in the engine would be better for me. I preferring atmosphere mostly over action and Marathon could be more based on that rather than following the Doom fashion which was the reason it was called a clone by others. I'm a sucker for Marathon's atmosphere and it could be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFjpce4 ... ML&index=4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB_xuB4 ... ML&index=7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7FzWB4 ... ML&index=6

If light-mapping is still denied then at-least add coloured lighting. Something rather than nothing.
I think lightmaps were indeed added to GZ Doom, like with Build. Brutal Doom, Extermination Day and Hedon all look great with lightmapping, especially if it appears in lava levels and even moreso when using fire weapons like BD's optional flamethrower.

Colored lighting in Marathon would help the atmosphere a lot as I love it too, plus Aleph One's basic mapping in Weland is easier to understand than Doom. Build isn't an option for me either as Mapster32 sucks and barely qualifies as a Build engine editor. If we can have rain scripts, then DI style jumping & ducking, and colored lighting aren't that far fetched at all.

Personally, the closest feel to Marathon I've seen in other games is Ion Maiden, Halo Single Player Version 3 and Unreal 1. The Egg Rock and Black Core levels of Sonic RoboBlast 2 on the Doom engine are no slouches either:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954516697

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954517247

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954518590

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954520388

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954526097

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954530158

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954531881

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954540285

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954542524

That last one is during the race against metal sonic.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1954544356

As the text on this one implies, it's more a reference to an Ion Maiden boss. Namely this one, against an enemy from Marathon 2 & Infinity I wasn't expecting:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1864824555
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ravenshining
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coloured and/or dynamic lighting: good idea

mentioning that along with crouching and jumping in the same sentence: bad idea

ranting at the void because you want people to do things for you: very bad idea

sure, some lighting effects would be great, but remember we only have 1-3 people kind enough to take the time to do free programming work on Aleph One, and last we heard the focus of those efforts is going to be moving to a new graphics api, not adding new features.

jumping and crouching is changing gameplay, and adding the extra keybinds to do so is non-trivial. besides, there are plenty of jumping lua scripts.
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Lion O Cyborg
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ravenshining wrote:coloured and/or dynamic lighting: good idea

mentioning that along with crouching and jumping in the same sentence: bad idea

ranting at the void because you want people to do things for you: very bad idea

sure, some lighting effects would be great, but remember we only have 1-3 people kind enough to take the time to do free programming work on Aleph One, and last we heard the focus of those efforts is going to be moving to a new graphics api, not adding new features.

jumping and crouching is changing gameplay, and adding the extra keybinds to do so is non-trivial. besides, there are plenty of jumping lua scripts.
The LUA is fine and I am happy to wait, though my tones sometimes may suggest otherwise. Currently I've just been poking around for DI's Orion Editor, so see if I can look in there for hints to movement code (for the crouch part), but I've only found the Mac version of Orion and I don't know if it's compatible with OSX. Speaking of the new API, is it another build of Open GL or something new?
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Zott
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Time to learn some programming and get to work on it!
Adding colored lighting is possible with shaders this old thread used to have an impressive photo of a hard coded light source on a Marathon map:
http://pfhorums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6271
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General Tacticus
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I actually have been messing around with using 3d models to add shadow layers over rooms, and it is very simple (albeit wildly inefficient)

Unfortunately, there are 3 problems that I have run into:

1) The engine's culling system isn't suitable for room sized models (this isn't a new revelation).
2) The depth sorting makes surfaces appear in front of the model in columns defined by wall segments that are closer to you than it is.
3) There needs to be an option to use a multiply blend for transparent objects.

I can think of solutions for 1 and 3 that are fairly direct (I realize that source code changes are a big ask, these aren't demands):

1) Add an mml option that lets you turn off 3d object culling
3) Use a custom openGL shader that is included via plugin

As for 2, I have no idea how depth sorting works in this engine, so I get that it's probably way more trouble than it's worth.

Here is a very janky example of the method I have been trying out. The shadows would look right with a different blending mode, but this should illustrate the idea well enough.

*edit*
here is a screenshot if you don't want to download
UntitledLevel_0002.png
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Pfhorrest
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That screenshot looks pretty awesome at least.
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Ku-rin
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That's pretty neat.
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The Man
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Yeah, this looks cool, and could be extremely promising if it could start working correctly. Hell, if this feature had existed (and functioned correctly) but six months ago, it could probably have saved us a ton of texture slots for Where Monsters Are in Dreams’ Nebulon set. Oh well; better late than never!
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Meerjel01
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Alien Breed

Maybe it's true 3D but it could be replicated to Aleph One either way right?
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