Additional water effects?

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xilef
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Is it possible to achieve image distortion under water?
So when looking at the surface of water, objects, polygons and such are distorted, similar to this image: Linky.

And also, is it possible to add a fog under a media? So when looking at the surface again, you can only see so far until it becomes too dark to view.

Could these be ideas thought about for the next big update? Or is it already possible?

I've been creating "realistic" water effects, so far I can make really good water bump maps that look quite like green-ocean water, but it would be nicer if the colour of the water is dependant on an MML fog under it.
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irons
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Neither of those things can be done at the present time.
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Hopper
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Xilef wrote:And also, is it possible to add a fog under a media?
The concept you're thinking of is "volumetric fog," which isn't possible as was previously discussed.
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xilef
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Ah, I understand entirely.

How about the normal AlephOne fog, but it only applies under the media? So a unique fog for underwater? How would I go about doing that?
EDIT:

What I exactly mean is around the edges of the water, by the walls and such, you'll be able to see the polygon of the wall fade into the water, or if the water is very shallow (Media is close to the floor polygon) you can see straight through.

I understand that this is not possible though. Oh well.
Last edited by xilef on Feb 21st '10, 22:55, edited 1 time in total.
Kurinn
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Never mind. It looks nice.

Can you use transparency with bump maps there?
Last edited by Kurinn on Feb 21st '10, 23:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Vladtepes
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As said Hopper this problem have more or less already been discussed: you want volumetric fog and it is not possible.

Media (water, lava...) in marathon are just the surface texture plus a fader (screen coloration) that is applied when the player is underwater. There is no underwater fog.

The only thing you could achieve with fog is to use lua to add some fog when player has head underwater and link the fog to the depth the player is. However the effect it would produce would be nothing close to what you want. It will prevent the player to see at long distances but will affect the entire world (remember? no volumetric fog) so I am pretty sure it will look pretty bad.
Last edited by Vladtepes on Feb 21st '10, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
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xilef
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Actually Vlad I wanted something like that also, a new fog to appear when the player is in the media, restricting their view underwater.

Kurinn, when it's transparent you can see right through to the bottom, and it looks crap when there's bump maps...
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treellama
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If Aleph One supported separate shaders for liquid surfaces, you could do image distortion or shading (including fog) of the image passing through the liquid surface.

But that has nothing to do with what you're seeing in this image: you're seeing distorted reflections, which are even more involved. You can't do reflection like this with shaders alone.
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Xilef wrote:Actually Vlad I wanted something like that also, a new fog to appear when the player is in the media, restricting their view underwater.

Kurinn, when it's transparent you can see right through to the bottom, and it looks crap when there's bump maps...
Did you try adjusting the transparency by small increments using a negative opacity shift?
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xilef
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Treellama wrote:If Aleph One supported separate shaders for liquid surfaces, you could do image distortion or shading (including fog) of the image passing through the liquid surface.

But that has nothing to do with what you're seeing in this image: you're seeing distorted reflections, which are even more involved. You can't do reflection like this with shaders alone.
Ignore the reflection part, I'm not interested in that as I'm already cheating with "cube mapped" like effects.

I understand what you mean.
However, another cheat way could be doing it like tomb raider anniversary, distort the image on the area around the water.
The draw back of this is: In tomb raider the player's model, even when out of the water, had it's edges distorted, it looks very annoying.

So any chance of this being achieved or can Aleph One not support media surfaces with shaders at all? I understand it can support detecting polygons currently in the centre of the player's view.


And no kurinn, i didn't try that. Maybe a very slight transparency would look okay.
Last edited by xilef on Feb 21st '10, 23:56, edited 1 time in total.
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goran
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Here's an idea, at the top of my mind:

You use the the off and on switches from other texture sets to create one look from above the surface, and one look from beneath the surface.
By assigning the switches to a light, you can switch between the two looks by activating the light.

Of course, this only works for solo play, and it is by no means a good sollution.

Another idea would be to have a transparent liquid with somekind of blooming texture beneath the surface. I dunno how it would look =/
Last edited by goran on Feb 22nd '10, 01:10, edited 1 time in total.
Kurinn
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Here's some stuff I did to show you how underwater fog and bloom look together.

The water I am using is my typical high-res water, with a bloom scale of 0.4



Now, here is how it looks from underwater, with no fog:


Here is how it looks w/ fog at depth = 8:


Here is how it looks w/fog at depth = 6, green = 1, red = 0:


Here is how it looks w/ fog at depth = 4, default color:


Here is the length of the pool w/ depth = 6, green = 1, red = 0:



Edit:
I think you'll really like this one though. I set the bloom scale on the daytime landscape to 0.550, and the water to 0.5
Then I set affects_landscapes to false.
The more fog depth you put in, the more blurry the bloom from the landscape will look at lower depths.
Last edited by Kurinn on Feb 22nd '10, 03:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Now that is amazing. [MUp]
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That last image looks really nice, good job.
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goran
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I love threads like this one. Good postage. Kurinn, could I get access to your demo map for further experimentation? (mostly interested in the mml, I could probably use my own maps and textures)
Last edited by goran on Feb 22nd '10, 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
Kurinn
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Goran wrote:I love threads like this one. Good postage. Kurinn, could I get access to your demo map for further experimentation? (mostly interested in the mml, I could probably use my own maps and textures)
Which demo map, you mean the pool? If you're talking about the fog, I just did that through the console in Lua while I was in-game. The bloom was just one line a piece for the water and the landscape each.
If you want access to all of my stuff that I'm experimenting on with MPDX, the best way is to join the dropbox I'm using. Just give me an email you have access to, and I'll send an invite. It's easier for me to keep a folder on that than to constantly upload stuff.
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treellama
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FYI, anything you put in your Dropbox Public folder can be downloaded via HTTP. No need to upload anything.
Kurinn
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Treellama wrote:FYI, anything you put in your Dropbox Public folder can be downloaded via HTTP. No need to upload anything.
Thank you once again, Treellama. If I installed your brain in my chest cavity, my own brain could play pong by itself all day and be contented, much as it yearns to be even now.
But yes, I hadn't thought about that, and I'll start putting stuff in there for everyone to play with.
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