Aleph One 1.0b2

Have a question, suggestion, or comment about Aleph One's features and functionality (Lua, MML, the engine itself, etc)? Post such topics here.
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treellama
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A second beta build is available from SourceForge:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/marath ... 011-04-17/

As with beta 1, this is a major version number increment, and we want
to test it very thoroughly. Please download it and give it a try, and
report any bugs you find here or on the SourceForge bug reporter.

The release notes are now visible on that page using SourceForge's new inline release notes feature.
dforell86
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After changing the graphics settings and then leaving the graphics menu, the display no longer updates. I can here menu back clicks when i press escape. ALT+F4 and reloading the game works fine. After reloading, the settings are the way i want them.

Windows 7

Also, Infravision messes up when you enter a new level with it still active. Only sprites and terminals still have the effect on, and terminals flip out.
Last edited by dforell86 on Apr 18th '11, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.
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treellama
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Which settings did you change? Were you switching renderers? What video card and drivers?

We know about the infravision bug: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=d ... tid=101997

Thanks!
dforell86
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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460, Driver Version 266.58. Switching from default renderer OpenGL (Classic) to Software renderer. Switching from software to the OpenGL renderer doesn't cause any problems.

Only other changes i made were screen resolution (default to 1680x1050), terminal size to double, and transparent liquids to nice.
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treellama
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I have to admit, I'm surprised someone with a GTX 460 is using the software renderer. I really recommend using OpenGL on that machine. That said, I have the exact same card, so I'll try to reproduce the problem.
Last edited by treellama on Apr 18th '11, 19:27, edited 1 time in total.
dforell86
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I'm using OpenGL (Classic), I was just testing out settings and ran into the bug.
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Zott
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Reproducible problem:

From main menu;
Begin New Game
Leave match immediately.
View Last Replay.

Error box tells me "A system error occurred while attempting to read from your map or saved game file (error 2)"

Begin New Game -> Game will crash with following error message.
[attachment=4749:Capture.PNG]


Seems fairly unbiased as to the type of map, from Marathon 2's to Paradise Lost.

Also note that I'm having some issues running old replays that used to work too. Trying to replay those films that worked to debug the Chase-Cam, gives the error box listed above. They however to continue to work "fine" in Beta 1.

On the plus side, that problem plaguing going going in and out of the same scenario appears fixed.


Specs:
G50V - Windows 7 x64 Professional - Service Pack 1
P8400 2.26Ghz
Nvidia 9700m GT
Running Aleph One in OpenGL Shader mode
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Last edited by Zott on Apr 19th '11, 23:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Disable non-power-of-two texture support by default, since it's buggy on common hardware, and add a preference to turn it on
I can confirm that's what the problem was on my machine. Now I can play in OpenGL mode again. [MUp]
Chase-cam fixes: chase cam is usable in replays; fix a chase cam crash; chase cam should no longer cause OOS(!)
This one's also very nice.
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ukimalefu
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3rd party maps just don't work, I get a type 1 error.
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treellama
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ukimalefu wrote:3rd party maps just don't work, I get a type 1 error.
Can you give an example? I have a pile of them that work.
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ukimalefu
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Treellama wrote:Can you give an example? I have a pile of them that work.
Uhm... Paradise lost XI, Quick Six 1.2 , Popems 1.0, Winter v1.11, Victory Dance VI

Coriolis Loop seems to be the only 3rd party map that does work.

I'll try downloading the most recent versions of maps later.
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A strange effect with bloom in the current beta. The scenery items shown have a normal_bloom_scale of 0.50; They don't have masks. All three shots are taken at normal brightness, and Gamma-corrected blending is checked. VSync is checked, Full Scene Antializing is 4x, and Anisotropic filtering is all the way up (Though I don't know what these effect).

-----------------------------------
Aleph One in OpenGL (Shader)
Mac OS 10.6.4
3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 4670
-----------------------------------

The screenshots below are from the current beta, the previous beta, and build 0.23.2.
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treellama
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Can you post another set with gamma corrected blending disabled? If you stand in one place and look for a while, then replay last film, you can take screenshots from that identical position.

It's been remarkably difficult to get a good set of bloom defaults. Almost anything we (Hopper) comes up with, we (I) can find a case where it doesn't look that great. Gamma corrected blending makes it even more difficult.

Out of curiosity, which of the six do you prefer?
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treellama
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ukimalefu wrote:Uhm... Paradise lost XI, Quick Six 1.2 , Popems 1.0, Winter v1.11, Victory Dance VI
I've definitely used at least Pop'ems 1.1 with beta 2. Are these maps stored in your Aleph One folder?
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ukimalefu
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Treellama wrote:I've definitely used at least Pop'ems 1.1 with beta 2. Are these maps stored in your Aleph One folder?
Yes.
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ukimalefu
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Just downloaded Paradise Lost XV and it works just fine, so maybe my maps are corrupt or something.
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treellama
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ukimalefu wrote:Just downloaded Paradise Lost XV and it works just fine, so maybe my maps are corrupt or something.
Do you still have 0.23.2? Do they still work there?
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Here is a set of six screenshots, each labeled according to the Aleph One version and whether Gamma-Corrected Blending is on or off. As before, the shots are taken at normal brightness and the Alien Light has a normal_bloom_scale of 0.50 through mml.

I'll post my system specs again so everything's here for you.
-----------------------------------
Aleph One in OpenGL (Shader)
Mac OS 10.6.4
3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 4670
-----------------------------------

As for which I prefer, I like the bloom effects on the bottom right one, but not the texture brightness.

It doesn't really show in these shots, but bloom effects with Gamma-Corrected Blending off are extremely bright. It's especially noticeable with yellow-orange-red explosion effects.

Also note the strangeness I mentioned about the beta2 is more noticeable on the distant lights, and looks sort-of normal closer up.
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Last edited by President People on Apr 19th '11, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
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ukimalefu
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Treellama wrote:Do you still have 0.23.2? Do they still work there?
What's that? The previous version of Aleph One? No, I don't think I still have that.
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treellama
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Red Fox wrote:It looks like a Gaussian blur was applied to the opening screen and console images.
You can turn off scaling of the menus by unchecking the "fill the screen" checkbox.
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Red Fox wrote:I always have "fill the screen" checked, that's not the issue, but I did figure out what is happening. In the current build, it changes the display res, and shows the image scaled natively so it looks very nice. In the beta, it switches to your saved resolution at startup. If this is a non-native res, than the startup and console images are blurred. The images are the same, it's just how they are presented. If I set my res to 640x480 in Beta 2 they look the same. The previous build changes the res when you start playing--I guess. I'm sure the new system is superior, so it's not a big deal, however...

Part of the issue is that I can't run marathon at my screen's native res, because of some odd anomaly. At 1920x1080 it displays marathon in an interlaced manner, so I have to use 1600x900. Sometimes I do 1920x1080 for the hypnotic effect (it looks like a CRT). If there was a way for Marathon to display correctly at 1920x1080 on my monitor then the "blurry image" thing would also be solved, as it would be scaling to native res.

It's an NEC EA231WMI which tells computers/blu-ray players, etc., that it is a TV when running at TV resolutions (480P, 720P, 1080i and 1080P). Yes, you saw correctly, 1080i--it does interlacing! Have you ever heard of an LCD that displays images interlaced? It's emulating interlacing of course, but it really looks like a CRT the way it flickers, and is quite cool for more authentic 8 and 16-bit gaming experience s(or to serve as a reminder of how nice progressive is ^_-). But I digress.

Anyway, AlephOne is selecting the 1080i setting instead of the 1080P setting. If this could be sorted out, it would be a joyous day indeed! [MUp] Any ideas Treellama? Related to that, if I do not select "fill screen" than the startup screen and console run in interlaced mode.

I've included screenshots of the current build "Happy Pixels" which are scaled perfectly (a screenshot spits out a 640x480 image), and one of Beta 2 "Sad Pixels" at both 1600x900 as captured, and scaled down to 640x480 in PS to compare with "Happy Pixels".

P.S. In an unrelated note, I freaked out the first time I tried beta 2 because I thought the scenario textures had been changed, but later remembered I was using different textures and was instead being surprised by the standard textures. [imwithstupid]
Maybe because it's almost 4 AM I had to read this three times and I'm still not sure I understand it, but I think it's just a very long way to describe how you can turn off image scaling of the menus by unchecking the "fill the screen" checkbox if you insist on running at a resolution other than 640x480 and that you somehow managed to purchase a monitor that thinks it's an interlaced TV. :\
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treellama
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Red Fox wrote:Anyway, AlephOne is selecting the 1080i setting instead of the 1080P setting. If this could be sorted out, it would be a joyous day indeed! [MUp] Any ideas Treellama? Related to that, if I do not select "fill screen" than the startup screen and console run in interlaced mode.
Aleph One can only choose the width and height to switch the resolution to, it can't choose refresh rate or interlacing. I suggest connecting your monitor using a different connector: if you're using HDMI, try DVI or VGA. If you're using DVI, try VGA, and vice versa. Perhaps 1080i will just go away if you use a traditional PC connector.

You could also try SwitchResX, which will let you block resolutions from showing up, or remap them when applications request them.
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I've noticed several differences with the bloom for recent versions of Aleph One (0.23.2, 1.0b1, and 1.0b2).

The most obvious difference is that beta 2 has much brighter bloom than beta 1 and 0.23.2. Seems like a good idea except for the fact that anyone who has made add-ons that utilize bloom now has to make adjustments to their mml or images if they want the intended look for their graphics to remain intact.

Beta 2 has a four-way double image thing going on with the bloom. It's most obvious with the grenade, but it's noticeable with other graphics as well.

Note: all of these shots were taken using glow masks I've made for the grenade, M2 lava, and hunter hard death.

[attachment=4784:bloom_co..._grenade.jpg]

Notice how in beta 2 the shape of the glow coming from the back of the grenade gets duplicated at the top and sides of the sprite (make sure to view the image at 100%). Is the bloom in beta 2 intended to create the illusion of a lens flare? Or is this a bug?

While my intention was to compare bloom, I've discovered that both beta 1 and beta 2 handle shading much differently than 0.23.2. In the above image, compare the beige pillar on the left, as well as the beige ceiling above it. Beta 1 and 2 make the shading of the different sides of the pillar almost the same and lighten both it and the ceiling, whereas 0.23.2 has a more obvious difference in shading as the pillar changes directions at its corner, as well as a darker underside for the ceiling.

[attachment=4785:bloom_co...son_lava.jpg]

As you can see, the bloom is starting to bleach out the lava texture in beta 2. I tried making mml and image adjustments to get the lava looking as good as it does in 0.23.2 (make it glow noticeably without bleaching out the texture), but I wasn't successful.

Compare the wall to the left of the Pfhor fighter. Once again, beta 1 and 2 have lightened the differential shading, whereas 0.23.2 has a difference in shading as the wall changes directions.

Another thing I noticed is how the sprite for the Pfhor fighter here is darker in beta 1 and 2. A bug? Or a fixed bug?

Also, there is a particular ceiling polygon in the background that is much brighter in beta 1 and 2. It's the one that the light is hanging from, to the right of the doors in the background.

[attachment=4786:bloom_co...n_hunter.jpg]

Here you can see some of the things I already mentioned, such as beta 2's brighter bloom and four-way double image (the latter not being as obvious as the grenade example up top). Also, the shading for the ceiling is darker in 0.23.2.

Windows Xp x64
GeForce 7100 + nForce 630i
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As Treellama mentioned, we've been trying to see if different bloom defaults will look good in more situations. There's no right/wrong answer when it comes to bloom effects, especially given Marathon's lack of realistic lighting overall, so it's a matter of taste. We're also limited by lack of expertise in this area; the pseudo-lens-flare effect was an unintended consequence of getting other brightness and falloff parameters to cooperate.

From your comments, I wasn't clear which bloom you liked better. Speak now; the group's preferences will be taken into account for the final release.

The shading was completely redone for 1.0 compared to 0.23.2; most prominently, the automatic differential shading was removed. The lighting calculations were made consistent with the OpenGL (Classic) renderer, so that maps have the same brightness in either renderer. If you turn on bump maps, it's still a bit of a mess as I haven't worked out how to light bump maps without the auto-shading, but with bump maps and bloom off, you get the perspective differences without unintended lighting changes. The new line is, it's a bug if the lighting looks different than Classic, and by that metric 0.23.2 failed miserably.
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Zott
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From President People's photos, I liked the Gamma Blending Beta 2 version of the lights, but I did not like the lighting of the texture. For that, it seems like Beta 1 was superior for brightness.


As far as Are's, I detest the Beta 2's lava, but otherwise don't mind. Seems once again that Beta 1 may be better, except for the glow, which are sometimes too much.

Also, echoing what I said earlier, replays for me are pretty much a game killer, I am lucky to watch any replays with Beta 2. (Doesn't seem to matter at all when they were filmed)
Last edited by Zott on Apr 29th '11, 02:52, edited 1 time in total.
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