Aleph One 1.0b2

Have a question, suggestion, or comment about Aleph One's features and functionality (Lua, MML, the engine itself, etc)? Post such topics here.
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quartz
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got another game in. notes:

- so I take back what I said earlier about ring not having any issues. the game doesn't outright die, but once in a while (like every 10+ min area maybe? they're far apart) the machines lock up for several seconds. if we wait it always comes back. annoying, but playable. this happened before but I thought it was a fluke. having now played through 2/3 of m2, it's definitely consistent.

- there's something wrong with hud vs saved games again, but this time it's weird. given the following steps in this exact order:
1) launch 23.2 or 1.0b2
2) gather off a saved net game, or join into a game being gathered off a saved net game.
3) can't turn on crosshairs.

1) launch 23.2 or 1.0b2
2) gather new fresh net game (no save), or join into a game being gathered fresh.
3) crosshairs work.
4) exit to main menu, but don't quit the app
5) gather off a saved net game, or join into a game being gathered off a saved net game.
3) crosshairs work.

ie; crosshairs don't work in net games until you gather or join into a fresh game, after that they work either way. they always work in single player regardless.
note that this is machine and per-app-launch specific: at one point we stopped for a break, I quit out of the app completely whereas my friend left it on the main menu. when we came back and resumed from our save, he got crosshairs, but I couldn't activate mine. this is not a fluke, I tested this several times. it's not a corrupt save either (unless every save on my machine went corrupt at the same time, I tested a half dozen).

not sure what's going on. the only thing that's changed recently was the new version of floating x, but that was last time and we didn't have this problem then. I didn't get a chance to see if disabling floating x fixed it.
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treellama
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Co-op crosshair, Lua HUD and star issues are all fixed in beta 3, can you try that? Please read the TimingDebug thread before you do.

Ring is not getting any bug fixes :)
Last edited by treellama on Jun 30th '11, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.
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quartz
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Treellama wrote:Co-op crosshair, Lua HUD and star issues are all fixed in beta 3, can you try that?
sorry, I don't check the main pages with any regularity. I assumed you or hopper or someone would post a link in this thread to the new one when the next beta came out.
Treellama wrote:Please read the TimingDebug thread before you do.
ok, can do. if we're still having lockup issues I'll post some reports there.
Treellama wrote:Ring is not getting any bug fixes :)
I don't expect it will, but I wasn't sure if the periodic freezes were related to that lag compensation bug you found.
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quartz
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quartz wrote:sorry, I don't check the main pages with any regularity. I assumed you or hopper or someone would post a link in this thread to the new one when the next beta came out.
for others like me:
http://www.pfhorums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9651
andor
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Treellama wrote:Seems like beta 1 broke some EMR scripts, too--what a surprise.
How can I find what scripts are broken so I can fix them?

Reviewing all scripts is a tedious task.
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andor wrote:How can I find what scripts are broken so I can fix them?

Reviewing all scripts is a tedious task.
Approved your account. Welcome to the Pfhorums, andor.
andor
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At second look it looks to me that scripts: under TEXT under Resources in Quest.sceA should be completely rewritten,because even health power ups are broken, because it looks to me than global_idle and global_got_item are broken too and not going to work with new LUA api.

First I need to make sure that I do not broke working stuff when I remerge Quest.sceA in atque.
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treellama
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andor wrote:At second look it looks to me that scripts: under TEXT under Resources in Quest.sceA should be completely rewritten,because even health power ups are broken, because it looks to me than global_idle and global_got_item are broken too and not going to work with new LUA api.

First I need to make sure that I do not broke working stuff when I remerge Quest.sceA in atque.
You don't have to write the entire thing to use the new API--although that would be a good idea at some point, too, because some day we may want to remove the compatibility layer.

Aleph One 1.0b3 now prints an error message to the log when a script fails to load, so that should help track down any problems.

Don't spend too much time on them until 1.0 is released, and we're sure we can't fix them in the engine.
andor
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Treellama wrote:You don't have to write the entire thing to use the new API--although that would be a good idea at some point, too, because some day we may want to remove the compatibility layer.

Aleph One 1.0b3 now prints an error message to the log when a script fails to load, so that should help track down any problems.

Don't spend too much time on them until 1.0 is released, and we're sure we can't fix them in the engine.
Yeah, I found compatibility stuff in Aleph One code.
So I think that idle() and got_item() do not work at all. Is it possible to fix them adding new compatibility stuff or new stuff is required in engine itself?
Rewriting everything is right direction but I can not get it to work, probably items got broken too...

So my understanding that Triggers.got_item() should be called instead of got_item(), and Triggers.idle() instead of idle().
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treellama
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idle() and got_item() are called in the compatibility script in lua_script.cpp

The problem with beta 3 is calling API functions before init() is called. Moving that stuff out of the main script and into init() should fix things.
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The problems it that using atque breaks stuff even more, previously working stuff is not working any more, like holodeck and crew spawn in 2nd level, Also terminal text is with bigger spacings between paragraphs.

I'm probably missing something here.
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I don't recognize your screen name, andor. Were you involved in EMR's development at some point?
andor
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Crater Creator wrote:Were you involved in EMR's development at some point?
Nope.
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The powerup issue (and including many others...) was because I used ctrl + shift to start level, I think this did not worked even when I played emr for the first time few years ago.

Issue with atque is resolved copying and renaming lua and mml scripts in Resources/TEXT to right levels.

Ugly issues with shapes in emr (actually emr bug) with software rendering could be fixed but it would take so much time, because the only shape editor I know about does not allow direct image editing.

Aleph One sometimes complains about meda compatibilty stuff on some levels. I did not yet finished full game so maybe bad things are yet to come.
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treellama
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andor wrote:Issue with atque is resolved copying and renaming lua and mml scripts in Resources/TEXT to right levels.
That is not a general fix. You should move things that don't rely on external files into embedded Lua/MML. However, any MML that references external files (and EMR uses a lot of it) should remain in TEXT resources.
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It was decided to not support software rendering for EMR. You may find the FAQ helpful along with the rest of the site, though I notice now not all the information may be accurate.
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treellama
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andor wrote:The problems it that using atque breaks stuff even more, previously working stuff is not working any more, like holodeck and crew spawn in 2nd level, Also terminal text is with bigger spacings between paragraphs.
I don't know how EMR3 is supposed to work, so I can't help you there. If you can point to a specific piece of Atque's behavior that you believe is wrong, I'll try to fix it. If you have a Mac, you can edit the EMR text resources directly with ResEdit if you can run Classic, or Rezilla if you can't.

I was able to fix the Lua scripts for the first level, by moving the first 30 lines or so in text resource 130 (so, the stuff that's not inside any function) into a global_init() function, and then calling global_init() at the top of the init() function in text resource 2000.

You'd have to do this for every level. Unfortunately, I was not able to find a way to fix Aleph One to accept these early API calls, and at the same time keep the new features. So, without minor changes, EMR 3 will not work with Aleph One 1.0.

It's OK to spend time fixing these now.
Last edited by treellama on Jul 10th '11, 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
donmerlin

It's quite exciting to see Aleph One 1.0 finally released! Woo hoo!

Unfortunately for EMR players, it will not be compatible with EMR, so if you want to play EMR, please use the version of Aleph One that came with the EMR download.

For those that aren't aware, since the release of EMR 3.0, I've been married, and now have 2 kids, a 10-year old and a 1-year old. The 10-year old my wife brought from a previous marriage, and the 1-year old is little Michael, my very first. He's awesome, but also a handful, so I barely have time to even check my email these days! Oh, to have a clone.... :)

Treellama wrote:I don't know how EMR3 is supposed to work, so I can't help you there. If you can point to a specific piece of Atque's behavior that you believe is wrong, I'll try to fix it. If you have a Mac, you can edit the EMR text resources directly with ResEdit if you can run Classic, or Rezilla if you can't.

I was able to fix the Lua scripts for the first level, by moving the first 30 lines or so in text resource 130 (so, the stuff that's not inside any function) into a global_init() function, and then calling global_init() at the top of the init() function in text resource 2000.

You'd have to do this for every level. Unfortunately, I was not able to find a way to fix Aleph One to accept these early API calls, and at the same time keep the new features. So, without minor changes, EMR 3 will not work with Aleph One 1.0.

It's OK to spend time fixing these now.
donmerlin

Anyone out there willing to help get EMR working with AlephOne 1.0? I have a wee bit more time now (emphasis on the "wee"), so if I know exactly what I need to do, I can start doing it. Problem is, I've read this thread and a few emails I've received, and while the general idea is understood, I don't have a clear enough idea of the details of *exactly* what needs to be done to allow me to begin the process. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[spnkr]
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treellama
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Don Merlin wrote:Anyone out there willing to help get EMR working with AlephOne 1.0? I have a wee bit more time now (emphasis on the "wee"), so if I know exactly what I need to do, I can start doing it. Problem is, I've read this thread and a few emails I've received, and while the general idea is understood, I don't have a clear enough idea of the details of *exactly* what needs to be done to allow me to begin the process. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[spnkr]
I think it's just a Lua incompatibility that prevents it from working in 1.0. The compatibility scripts are still in place in 1.0, although deprecated.

The key is that the script is loaded much earlier now to allow for things like suppressing monster placement, so if you try to call any of the functions from, say, the Players or Monsters sections of the old Lua guide, when the script is loaded, the calls will fail. Instead of calling them at load time (i.e. outside of any trigger) that code should go in the init() trigger instead.

There are new tools that will make this much easier; Atque can split map resources into editable files, and then merge them back when done, so you can use any text editor and find/replace on plain text files--no more ResEdit!

It would be even better to convert the scripts to use the new (four year old) API, but that's a lot more work than is possible in a "wee" bit of time.
Last edited by treellama on Jun 26th '12, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
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