Lh'owon biology

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VikingBoyBilly
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Something I find weird is the F'lickta species. I don't normally expect two creatures from the same planet having differently colored blood, let alone the same species, but as you can see, the green and yellow races of F'lickta have red blood, but the turquoise ones have green blood. Their eyes match their blood as well. Why is this? (Besides the obvious answer that bungie can do whatever they want with the color tables =p). The flying flea-blimps all have yellowish-green blood themselves. People get riles up over the mystery of the hunter's bodily fluid but I don't think I've ever seen this disussed either here or the story page.

It's possible that it's not really blood, but some other body fluid that's yet to be defined. If you look at them in the shapes file you'll see clearly that there's two differently colored liquids spouting out of them upon death, but the other liquid matches the color of the liquid they're normally found in (slime, water, lava) so I'm pretty sure that's what it's meant to be. They absorb their nutrients from the liquid around them so it could actually be coming from their body rather than the splashes they make upon falling.

Even the pfhor think this one is weird: How does a two-eyed four-limbed monster with a giant mouth on it's stomach evolve into a one-eyed, 1-2 limbed brain that requires a cybernetic exoskeleton to live (that also has a mouth on it's stomach)? It's almost as bizarre as... a T-rex evolving into chickens =p But then chickens and T-rex's still have the same number of eyes and limbs and a similar body stature. Nobody can ever prove what color a dinosaur's blood is (but we're all assuming it was red).

You know what? I think I was wrong in my assumption that all animals on earth have red blood, because I think some species of insects/arachnids have green, but I don't know for sure.
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Interesting topic. I can't come up with an explanation for the different F'lickta blood, beyond artistic license. However, regarding the F'lickta evolving into S'pht, is there anything on a Compiler, besides the brain, that looks organic? I think it's plausible the Jjaro just implanted a F'lickta brain into a ready-made mechanical body. The compilers obviously gained additional intelligence somewhere in the process.
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VikingBoyBilly wrote:Nobody can ever prove what color a dinosaur's blood is (but we're all assuming it was red).
Actually I think that they´ve found blood cells in the marrow...

I think red blood is the rule on Planet Earth at least. Iron (which makes the blood red) is said to be the best oxygen carrier. Of course there are exceptions, I believe that octopi and squids have copper instead and thus their blood is bluish/greenish. But most blood out there is red.
Meta

Will you please stop doing this? Seriously, the reason they have blood like that is because is because Bungie thought it was aesthetically pleasing, that's it. It's just a game, and judging from the quality of it Bungie was more concerned about making it entertaining than pouring over mundane little details like this that only Obsessive Compulsive wastes of space like yourself will even care about it. Plus, you came to a perfectly logical assumption halfway through typing up your question so why did you even post?
Last edited by Meta on Jul 5th '09, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
Kurinn
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Meta wrote:Will you please stop doing this? Seriously, the reason they have blood like that is because is because Bungie thought it was aesthetically pleasing, that's it. It's just a game, and judging from the quality of it Bungie was more concerned about making it entertaining than pouring over mundane little details like this that only Obsessive Compulsive wastes of space like yourself will even care about it. Plus, you came to a perfectly logical assumption halfway through typing up your question so why did you even post?
Don't forget that it also saves space on the color tables.

Your rant is kind of weak sauce, dude. You'll notice in my last riff on MoppyPuppy, I implied that his inane posting style had driven another human being to madness. If you can't even insult their grandmothers or something, then why did you even post?
Last edited by Kurinn on Jul 5th '09, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.
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VikingBoyBilly
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Meta wrote:Will you please stop doing this? Seriously, the reason they have blood like that is because is because Bungie thought it was aesthetically pleasing, that's it. It's just a game, and judging from the quality of it Bungie was more concerned about making it entertaining than pouring over mundane little details like this that only Obsessive Compulsive wastes of space like yourself will even care about it. Plus, you came to a perfectly logical assumption halfway through typing up your question so why did you even post?
Reading serious responses like this that bring a smile to my face is one reason that makes it all worthwhile [MSmile]
Kurinn
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VikingBoyBilly wrote:Reading serious responses like this that bring a smile to my face is one reason that makes it all worthwhile [MSmile]
I don't know what is worse; Either it's your meager attempt to deflect aggressive criticism and spite with see-through somber optimistic irony, or it's the fact that you don't know when to stop posting. Honestly, I don't care which is worse, because deep down I know that you cannot help yourself.

You are only visible to others when you impose your meaningless conjectures in a fertile ground for discussion of things which actually have some relevance (when your ideas about F'lickta do not), so you throw yourself into a position where you know you will accumulate scorn, simply so that someone will pay you any attention beyond what you would normally merit.

Then some poor fool comes in, and vents on you by making himself look like an utter buffoon, and we're left with an even greater net drain of the intelligence of the entire board. It's a downward spiral into something I really don't want to have to see or deal with.

Why don't you think about things a little, wait until there is actually some useful insight you can contribute to the discussions around here, and until then, refrain from posting. Otherwise, you will simply end up gaining nothing but the kind of attention that demeans you and everyone else around you.

Don't do that. Don't be that guy.
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Meta

Kurinn wrote:I don't know what is worse; Either it's your meager attempt to deflect aggressive criticism and spite with see-through somber optimistic irony, or it's the fact that you don't know when to stop posting. Honestly, I don't care which is worse, because deep down I know that you cannot help yourself.

You are only visible to others when you impose your meaningless conjectures in a fertile ground for discussion of things which actually have some relevance (when your ideas about F'lickta do not), so you throw yourself into a position where you know you will accumulate scorn, simply so that someone will pay you any attention beyond what you would normally merit.

Then some poor fool comes in, and vents on you by making himself look like an utter buffoon, and we're left with an even greater net drain of the intelligence of the entire board. It's a downward spiral into something I really don't want to have to see or deal with.

Why don't you think about things a little, wait until there is actually some useful insight you can contribute to the discussions around here, and until then, refrain from posting. Otherwise, you will simply end up gaining nothing but the kind of attention that demeans you and everyone else around you.

Don't do that. Don't be that guy.
Him and his 163 IQ will leave you alone now.
Kurinn
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Meta wrote:Him and his 163 IQ will leave you alone now.
They always told me I was smart, but the one thing I wish I could learn the most is... to care. [MFrown]
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Meta

Kurinn wrote:They always told me I was smart, but the one thing I wish I could learn the most is... to care. [MFrown]
Too old of a joke for you to get? Or is your throat always choked by cruel apathy when laughter ventures to bubble out?
Last edited by Meta on Jul 5th '09, 18:49, edited 1 time in total.
$lave

The marathon community has a history of discussing details in Marathon which are most easily explained by limits in the engine. Why do you care if someone is curious as to whether or not there could be another reason for the colours of flickta blood?
Last edited by $lave on Jul 5th '09, 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
VikingBoyBilly
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Well TBH I didn't post this to be a troll. I was honestly curious what other people's ideas were on the subject. There just seem to be forums where people are interested in going into long, meaningless conjecture about insignificant details in video games that the designers themselves probably weren't even thinking about when they did it (see commander keen community), then there are forums where people make serious, derogatory responses to the TC because it angers or annoys them in some way (see every other forum in existence). This seems to be the latter... despite that the marathon story page gives a very different impression. Then again, all the marathon story pages are about things in the marathon universe that are more meaningful than f'licta blood or the gravitational center of Deimos.

I tried to feign it was a joke topic by saying I got a laugh out of a serious, negative response, but in some sense it's true because there's a little bit of a troll in me that gets mild entertainment from reading anonymous human suffering on the internet (I've been banned a couple times......). But Marathon is a game worthy of respect so I feel the community should be treated with support and affection. So really, I should apologize for some of my outbursts of stupidity, as some of you aren't in the mood to take it with lightheartedness. I'm guessing the death of the series, the bastardization of it by Halo fanboys and Bungie's selling out to microsoft for a brief moment in time (and complete transformation as a game company), and ultimately the lack of fanbase has made some Marathon fans cold and bitter over the years, so sick and tired of the disappointments that you've just grown used to it and ran out of optimism.

But really, with these fangames and source ports keeping the games alive, it's not like Marathon has truly died yet, or ever will. That's not the same as Bungie announcing a true sequel, but hey, its something. Hmmm.... maybe I driveled on to an unnecessary extent there. Sorry bout that [MWuh]
Meta

VikingBoyBilly wrote:Well TBH I didn't post this to be a troll. I was honestly curious what other people's ideas were on the subject. There just seem to be forums where people are interested in going into long, meaningless conjecture about insignificant details in video games that the designers themselves probably weren't even thinking about when they did it (see commander keen community), then there are forums where people make serious, derogatory responses to the TC because it angers or annoys them in some way (see every other forum in existence). This seems to be the latter... despite that the marathon story page gives a very different impression. Then again, all the marathon story pages are about things in the marathon universe that are more meaningful than f'licta blood or the gravitational center of Deimos.

I tried to feign it was a joke topic by saying I got a laugh out of a serious, negative response, but in some sense it's true because there's a little bit of a troll in me that gets mild entertainment from reading anonymous human suffering on the internet (I've been banned a couple times......). But Marathon is a game worthy of respect so I feel the community should be treated with support and affection. So really, I should apologize for some of my outbursts of stupidity, as some of you aren't in the mood to take it with lightheartedness. I'm guessing the death of the series, the bastardization of it by Halo fanboys and Bungie's selling out to microsoft for a brief moment in time (and complete transformation as a game company), and ultimately the lack of fanbase has made some Marathon fans cold and bitter over the years, so sick and tired of the disappointments that you've just grown used to it and ran out of optimism.

But really, with these fangames and source ports keeping the games alive, it's not like Marathon has truly died yet, or ever will. That's not the same as Bungie announcing a true sequel, but hey, its something. Hmmm.... maybe I driveled on to an unnecessary extent there. Sorry bout that [MWuh]
I honestly just enjoy making posts like that once in a while. I like the idea of them absorbing their nutrients from the liquids but then why the toothy vagina mouths?
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Meta wrote:I honestly just enjoy making posts like that once in a while. I like the idea of them absorbing their nutrients from the liquids but then why the toothy vagina mouths?
Because sex sells?
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JohannesG
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...i remember the days of the story page, when these kind of discussions were actually encouraged.

don't you guys forget that probably more than 40% of the Marathon Story was made by Marathon fans filling in the gaps that were left open, because of technical difficulties, art direction, pure laziness, or some other reason, by bungie.
Meta

Johannes Gunnar wrote:pure laziness by bungie.
Hence, Halo.
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Johannes Gunnar wrote:...i remember the days of the story page, when these kind of discussions were actually encouraged.

don't you guys forget that probably more than 40% of the Marathon Story was made by Marathon fans filling in the gaps that were left open, because of technical difficulties, art direction, pure laziness, or some other reason, by bungie.
That was the golden era of marathon. Good mappers, good community, and good atmosphere.
Meta

Quick, VikingBoyBilly, make a bunch of alternate accounts to converse with so we can return to the Golden Age of Marathon.
Kurinn
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Meta wrote:Quick, VikingBoyBilly, make a bunch of alternate accounts to converse with so we can return to the Golden Age of Marathon.
If you have so much time to beat this dead horse thread, why aren't you working on MPDX like a good Meta would?

Unless, you ate some weird evil yogurt, which caused you to turn into Bad Bad Meta...

Oh the horror, the sarcasm, the pure maniacal deviance! Somebody save us all!
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patrick
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Speculation avails naught; the one way forward is to vivisect Mike.
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treellama
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Kurinn wrote:If you have so much time to beat this dead horse thread, why aren't you working on MPDX like a good Meta would?

Unless, you ate some weird evil yogurt, which caused you to turn into Bad Bad Meta...
There's only one way to tell: what color does he bleed when you shoot him?
Last edited by treellama on Jul 6th '09, 17:47, edited 1 time in total.
Meta

Treellama wrote:There's only one way to tell: what color does he bleed when you shoot him?
You don't have to do that test. I'm not rapidly approaching you for any particular reason. I just-Frog Blast The Vent Core!
Last edited by Meta on Jul 6th '09, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares Ex Machina
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Much of the interesting discussion that took place on the Story Page would never have taken place had people reached for the closest answers, like "Bungie didn't have time to explain everything", or "it's just a game, who cares?" I think the discussion on the Story Page has enriched the Marathon universe, or at least our perception of that universe. I think this topic has the potential to do the same if creative and educated minds feel compelled to contribute to our understanding of the Marathon universe.

I'll do what I can. Hopefully it will compel someone with more science in their background, or a fresher memory of the Marathon story, to correct what I've contributed and build on my ideas.
VikingBoyBilly wrote:I don't normally expect two creatures from the same planet having differently colored blood, let alone the same species, but as you can see, the green and yellow races of F'lickta have red blood, but the turquoise ones have green blood.
Well, first of all, this isn't Earth we're talking about, so we don't necessarily need to go with Earth rules. I don't know enough about biology to give you a plausible, evolution-based answer to your question (maybe someone else here does?); however....

If I recall correctly, the Jjaro used the S'pht to terraform Lh'owon, and the F'lickta were then used to help maintain the newly altered state of the planet's environment. Is it not possible that the F'lickta were genetically engineered to better serve their purpose of maintaining the new habitat? If that's the case, then it would make sense that each Filickta species would be customized for each environment type we encounter on Lh'owon. For example, aren't the reddish F'licktas invulnerable to magma?

If each F'lickta species was indeed genetically altered, then that begs the question...by whom? The Jjaro or the S'pht?

VikingBoyBilly wrote:People get riles up over the mystery of the hunter's bodily fluid but I don't think I've ever seen this disussed either here or the story page.
Actually, I'm pretty sure this subject was touched upon on the Story Page. I would assume it's in the Pfhor section.

VikingBoyBilly wrote:It's possible that it's not really blood, but some other body fluid that's yet to be defined. If you look at them in the shapes file you'll see clearly that there's two differently colored liquids spouting out of them upon death, but the other liquid matches the color of the liquid they're normally found in (slime, water, lava) so I'm pretty sure that's what it's meant to be. They absorb their nutrients from the liquid around them so it could actually be coming from their body rather than the splashes they make upon falling.
Indeed there is a color we see in addition to blood. I also seem to recall one of the terminals mentioning the F'lickta absorbing nutrients from their habitat, so if that's the case, then it would make (videogame) sense that we would see the natural colors of their habitat, as well as blood, spill out when we kill them. One thing I'll add is that you can tell which of the two colors is the blood because the F'licta has scratches on it. We know they're scratches and not gills or something because they're asymmetrical. Another reason we know which color is which is because it would make sense that the non-blood liquid is the one that matches the color of the environment type, and is also the one that is of lesser quantity.

VikingBoyBilly wrote:Even the pfhor think this one is weird: How does a two-eyed four-limbed monster with a giant mouth on it's stomach evolve into a one-eyed, 1-2 limbed brain that requires a cybernetic exoskeleton to live (that also has a mouth on it's stomach)?
I think this clip will answer any question you or the Pfhor may have.

And if the evolution answer doesn't do it for you, it would make sense if the Jjaro had the technology to genetically alter organisms.
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treellama
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Why are flamingos pink?

Why is tree sap a different color than your blood?

Some people around here look at the story pages (and the "good old days" of the Marathon community) through rose colored glasses. Some of the stuff in them is awesome, but there's a ton of pointless speculation in there, just like there is here.
Last edited by treellama on Jul 7th '09, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.
Kurinn
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Ares Ex Machina wrote:(lots of words and stuff)
Alright, you want to know the real reason why?

I'll tell you.

It depends on which type of Bob they had for lunch that day.


But really, how do the lava ones survive in lava?
It's lava for crying out loud! Are we to suppose that the tissues of this particular breed of poo-flinging cave-dwelling monster have a melting point so far above that of rock and iron that it thrives in the stuff? Why are we and other creatures able to move through lava so easily anyway? It's dense as fuck, and even if heat wasn't an issue, you would be crushed quite easily underneath no more than a few meters of the stuff. How can we see underneath it when it's a white-hot opaque molten substance anyway? Why is the Marine drawn without a a helmet that covers his entire head if we are to believe this is even possible? Just what kind of aftershave does this bad motherfucker use to avoid the perils of both razor burn and lava burn?

No much how you try to explain it, there are just some things that don't make sense, and don't really need to.

Now, if you really want something to speculate on, just wait for MPDX to come out, where we'll have all kinds of blanks to fill in.
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