The Pfhorums

The A.I. are... well... far to slow for me. Granted the game in itself may have been to inadvanced at the time to make a possibly overly-complicated programming function feasible, however I do not believe that is the case.
Would it be possible to update several of the old marathon games, or make new and improved ones that are bigger, harder and better? Without being impossible, while at the same time being believable?


I need stronger prey someone please help me in this endeavor.

And you are playing on Total Carnage?

You could make a custom physics that makes them harder. There wouldn't be an easy way to make them fire and shoot, but you could lower their delay between shooting and moving by removing some of their shooting frames.

Also Multiplayer.

Phoenix.

Harder? Sure, there are plenty of parameters, like vitality and speed, you can set in a custom physics model.
Bigger? Well, you could make them all enlarged, again using a custom physics model. Otherwise you'll have to edit the shapes.
Faster on the draw? Sure, check the Attacks Immediately flag and lower the Attack Frequency.
Smarter or better? That's awfully subjective, so you'd have to be more specific on what you'd want to see.

To make them smarter, you could potentially have them make use of special polygons in a customized level, allowing them to do certain functions when the player does xyz on the polygon(s). Also, area colliders would be useful, but these are things I don't think the engine is capable of using. With a collider or two, you could have the P'fhor do different attacks or button pressings or whatever to the player when the player is whatever distance and/or angle away from it (ie. stab at this distance and orientation, slash at this one. Run when health is just so, and when the player has this gun. If the player has explosives, hide behind this corner and strike if corner is such and such parameters).

Dis wrote:Phoenix.

True.
Playing Phoenix for the first time was kind a like Playing Halo Reach for the first time.
The Elites sidestep your sniper rounds, (almost psychically which is frustrating) and when you go to melee them they kick you in the face with their energy legs.

Same with Phoenix.
From other Marathon scenarios, we're accustomed to the fodder that is Pfhor fighters.
Then a Phoenix fighter will chuck an energy bolt at you that breaks the sound barrier before smacking you into the lava pit behind you.
Your initial reaction is: ...the f***?

@ Zott: I've found the total carnage setting merely a increase in health, and possibly damage. However this doesn't force me to truly develop any new strategies, other than a more cautious strategy.

Hit and run tends to work very well so long as you can aim. And I've played multiplayer. I'm very new however I've killed quite a few seasoned players in a rather clean sort of fashion.


@ Die: Game type? online or home system?


@ Envy: That's basically what I want individual units to do, however It would still make the experience much more appealing if the enemy operated in groups. Instead of getting in each others way they know how to move around and set up a proper killing zone. Though understandably that may be too ambitious.

@ MoppyPuppy: Intriguing... Are their shots homing? Or simply far to fast? And yes I've become horridly accustomed to the fodder that are the pfhor. Actually to be quite honest I've started to attempt making it through all of Rubicon without using a gun at any point whatsoever.

It's somewhat amusing when hunters and fighters are killing one another, while I have max ammo.

Prof.Hueqort wrote:@ MoppyPuppy: Intriguing... Are their shots homing? Or simply far to fast? And yes I've become horridly accustomed to the fodder that are the pfhor. Actually to be quite honest I've started to attempt making it through all of Rubicon without using a gun at any point whatsoever.

It's somewhat amusing when hunters and fighters are killing one another, while I have max ammo.

The bolts are faster, and the discharge animations are cut shorter too.

While its amusing to make enemies fight one another when you have max ammo, it ruins the experience really. Use the weapons and ammo whenever you can. The game is a lot more fun when you shoot.
The problem is, yes, most enemies in Marathon are a waste of ammo.
Increase their difficulty to be killed, and now you have an FPS.

Honestly, you could make a Marathon Scenario where in which the player escapes a Pfhor prison with no weapons and has no way of acquiring any throughout the entire game, and it'd still be mildly playable.

EXACTLY!

Han shot first BECAUSE he was faster on the draw.

uh, sorry, what!?

The Marathon Trilogy introduces newcomers to the series and how to play it.
There need not be scenarios that pull any punches.

For all scenarios, the enemies should be able to kill you individually if your careless.
You need not copy Phoenix exactly, where Phoenix had fast moving energy bolts, often en masse, other scenarios might consider really big single shot energy bolts, or area effect projectiles.
Perhaps dire consequences for using your fists against an enemy, which would promote a need to shoot enemies on higher difficulties.

...

Or maybe every enemy could spew fire at you from their extremities, I don't know.

@ Ukimalefu: Heh...

@ MoppyPuppy: Yes, and kinda sorta, plus um well that's rather amusing so maybe.

Alright so enemies should be fully capable of killing you if your being silly, however they should still be able to react as a group. patrols of two or three, two troopers and a hunter maybe. One to provide long range fire, and two for impressive mid to short range firepower. That sort of thing. Maybe to complicated, but one never knows...


Also I think that Juggernauts should do pirouettes while shooting missiles at you. To... spice things up a bit... >.>

Prof.Hueqort wrote:Actually to be quite honest I've started to attempt making it through all of Rubicon without using a gun at any point whatsoever.

Well, good luck. Just be prepared to be unable to fight off Juggernauts (they're immune), Chamberlains (they'll kill you if you go near them), and to an extent Thinkers (machine guns are pretty painful). And good luck in the Pfhor Council Room. I've only ever killed half on TC with fists, and then, mostly just the blue ones. Those dang wasps will give you a run for your money.

Dugit wrote:good luck in the Pfhor Council Room. I've only ever killed half on TC with fists, and then, mostly just the blue ones. Those dang wasps will give you a run for your money.

Yeah, you see that?
Stronger enemies will prevent stuff like this.

Disagree? Make an MML or Lua script that makes a new difficulty level that surpasses Total Carnage.
Its a difficulty level that takes all the weapons out of the game, forcing you to fist through.

It could be called "Fist Banging" or "Fistering" "Pfhists of Carnage" or "Total Conservatism".

See stronger enemies only make this more fun! and it could be called something like "Five fingered suicide". Or the like. Plus in Rubicon you can just run away from Juggernauts, even the citadel one if your smart, and aware of your surroundings.... and kinda lucky.



but I'll probably hate fighting the council because I'll like die in five seconds every time.

Prof.Hueqort wrote:See stronger enemies only make this more fun!

Stronger attacks.
Not stronger in how much they can take.

Halo Reach is ridiculous for that. And its not fun.

Actually I have a massive adrenalin rush and find it very entertaining. Harder means better. I just need to fight in unpredictable ways and they lose. Keep switching to new weapons!

Prof.Hueqort wrote:Actually I have a massive adrenalin rush and find it very entertaining. Harder means better. I just need to fight in unpredictable ways and they lose. Keep switching to new weapons!

Well I don't want to be firing grenades at fighters just for them to survive after two or more grenade clips.

Prof.Hueqort wrote:Actually I have a massive adrenalin rush and find it very entertaining. Harder means better. I just need to fight in unpredictable ways and they lose. Keep switching to new weapons!

Monsters in Marathon don't actually change tactics pertaining to which weapon you have. An enforcer will just sit there on a sniper ledge firing away at you, if you have a pistol, TEK crossbow, or even a rocket launcher. He doesn't give a flying shit.

Dugit wrote:Monsters in Marathon don't actually change tactics pertaining to which weapon you have. An enforcer will just sit there on a sniper ledge firing away at you, if you have a pistol, TEK crossbow, or even a rocket launcher. He doesn't give a flying shit.

True. However my last post was referring to the difficulty of Halo reach and how to counter the ridiculous A.I.


Though if the marathon system worked the same way I would be content with that.

Dugit wrote:Monsters in Marathon don't actually change tactics pertaining to which weapon you have. An enforcer will just sit there on a sniper ledge firing away at you, if you have a pistol, TEK crossbow, or even a rocket launcher. He doesn't give a flying shit.

Well if someone pointed a TEK crossbow at me, I would know I have a really good chance of taking no damage until he places his shots correctly, so I wouldn't care either.

Monsters in Marathon don't actually change tactics pertaining to which weapon you have.

Maybe I'm not playing the right games, but I rarely see games where enemies react differently to your in-hand weaponry.

Zott wrote:Maybe I'm not playing the right games, but I rarely see games where enemies react differently to your in-hand weaponry.

It's more to do with the way you position yourself during a given battle, due specifically to what weapon your using. For example you want to get very close to a target if you possessed a shotgun, or pistol, and would attempt to get behind or otherwise surprise your target(s). Because of this the enemy will respond to your movement in a way that best counteracts it. For example you constantly hide behind cover and wait for them to expose themselves whilst searching for you. Instead the throw grenades. The level of the A.I. results in how quickly and how often they will respond to a given tactic. This is why using a weapon in an unorthodox manner can confuse your coded opponent(s).

Shoot a shotgun at someone who's beyond its effective range, hit someone with a sniper rifle before switching to a pistol for an execution shot. Use missiles to jump to high ledges and herd the enemy away from you.

Analyze the situation next time you play, and experiment. You may be surprised.

You know, it WOULD be cool if the enemy had better AI.

The question is how would a person or group go about that? Would they/we start from scratch, or base it on a former program? That or a concoction of former works, a cocktail of intricate difficulty?

You speak as if the enemy has AI.