VISUAL MODE

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effigy
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Treellama wrote:Can you save a film? Post the bug to SourceForge?
I'm sure you've noticed, I filed that bug here. Since then, I've noticed VML is in the JUICEFORGE SVN on SourceForge and I am wondering if it would have been more appropriate to report it to the JUICFORGE tracker?

At the moment I assume when "vhalt" and "assertion failed" make an appearance in a log or dialog box I am correct to assume that A1 deserves the report?

I've had more assertion failures (I've yet to check for duplicates), and failures to save maps in VML.

Attached is a screen shot of one assertion failure, I'm not able to report logs at this time:
[attachment=2709:VML_asse...5_175940.jpg]

Also, should it be of interest, I've had plenty of Visual C++ Runtime Library boxes to occupancy A1's assertion failures, but never with so much information (i.e., Line: 1375).

A1 = 0.21.2
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treellama
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A Lua script should never make Aleph One crash, so if it does, it's an Aleph One bug.

That said, in this case, there is something grievously wrong with your map. Did you make this map in Forge?
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effigy
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Treellama wrote:A Lua script should never make Aleph One crash, so if it does, it's an Aleph One bug.

That said, in this case, there is something grievously wrong with your map. Did you make this map in Forge?
The map involving the screen shot I posted? It would have been created in Forge, modified by <The Thug's editor of choice>, and modified most recently by Smithy.

The report involving Rubicon shapes occurred in both a map made with Forge and another made with Smithy.
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treellama
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Well, it's pretty bogus.

Can you stick to Forge for Visual Mode bug reports, please?
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effigy
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Yeah, no problem.

Out of curiosity, what's bogus about it?

I recall a situation where Smithy filled an illegal polygon. The end point of a line intended to split the poly didn't merge with an existing polygon point and went beyond the polygon. This assertion failure is likely from attempting to texture that revision of a map. Perhaps that's a candidate for the cause?
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treellama
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In this case, a line has the same polygon on both sides of it. This won't just cause Visual Mode errors, it will eventually cause assertion failures in regular play.
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effigy
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Thanks, that sounds like the polygon I was describing. I could drag that loose end point around.
Last edited by effigy on Apr 28th '09, 21:08, edited 1 time in total.
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effigy
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Inspired by such and such, I've had similar messages (nil vs. null) when using VML in both RubiconX and Infinity:

Code: Select all

[string "level_script"]:192: attempt to index local 'collection' (a nil value) (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
...accompanied by:

Code: Select all

[string "level_script"]:1027: highlight: invalid slot (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
My logs from RubiconX also had:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: '=' expected near '<eof>' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
...with:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: unexpected symbol near '1' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
and another on session:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: '=' expected near 'LEVEL' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
I'm sorry, these logs were entered too long ago to recall my exact actions. IIRC the last three I've posted here are from attempts to save. I've had had trouble saving since using VML (RubiconX & Infinity), but never an error logged for it. I get message similar to "The was an error trying to save." Repeated .save level <random name> commands eventually saves the level. Ironically, usually when choosing the level name "please," less frequently "now."

I would have been using 0.22.0 pre1 when these log entries where made...there's a very small chance they happened with v0.21.0.

Maps made with Forge, last saved by v1.0.4.
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tehWastedJamacan
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lol

save level please
vs
save level now
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treellama
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effigy wrote:Inspired by such and such, I've had similar messages (nil vs. null) when using VML in both RubiconX and Infinity:

Code: Select all

[string "level_script"]:192: attempt to index local 'collection' (a nil value) (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
...accompanied by:

Code: Select all

[string "level_script"]:1027: highlight: invalid slot (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
Can you tell me how to reproduce these?

My logs from RubiconX also had:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: '=' expected near '<eof>' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
...with:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: unexpected symbol near '1' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
and another on session:

Code: Select all

[string "console"]:1: '=' expected near 'LEVEL' (../../../svn/Source_Files/Lua/lua_script.cpp:947)
You simply mistyped the command. The fact that the Lua interpreter executed means you missed the beginning dot.
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effigy
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Treellama wrote:Can you tell me how to reproduce these?
:o
Sorry, not for certain. The most likely occurrence I can think of is I would have attempted to copy an applied texture into the active slot for use. Possibly, I had successfully used the copy command to activate a texture and received the error when I tried to apply it.
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treellama
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Maybe you tried to copy the texture of an untextured side? It's definitely not an error you would (?should) get applying a texture, but it could be an error you get copying one, or changing collections.
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effigy
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Interesting. I'll have to make an effort to post soon after if it happens again.
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treellama
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Recording a film might help, if you keep the map you started with so it can be played back without going OOS.
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effigy
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We'll do. I'm very tempted to say, but also very unsure, that these errors were while I was experimenting with the RubiconX's prologue map.
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Kurinn
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(Treellama - This probably doesn't need it's own thread, I was only kidding.)

I've been using Visual Mode Lua for a while now, and I like it very much. It exceeds Forge's visual mode in many ways, and is vital to map making.

There are some things that I thought could make it better though...


For one thing, I find that when sliding textures, it's somewhat tricky to get precise placement. Now, this doesn't matter so much when using low-res textures, because having the texture off by a bit doesn't mean you'll be able to really notice it (each pixel of the texture being 1/128th of a world unit). But, now that I have been making textures for MPDX in resolutions with a minimum of 1024 pixels square, it really does become noticeable, mostly so with switches, which are only 1/8th of a world unit square in most cases, but in general it is a real problem.

I figure that if there was a way to have it so that you could have the texture snap to 1/8th world unit increments while texturing, it would be good.
If you could increment the offsets by numbers using an overlay menu, that would be even better. I think it would be possible for some really amazing work in high-res mapping if this was available. I couldn't figure out how this would be done by looking at the script itself, because I still am fairly unskilled with Lua, or else I would have done it myself.


Also, it occurred to me that Visual Mode could be useful for placing scenery, items, and other objects. The control interface is fairly simple and flexible, using the overlays as menus of a sort is great (and I have played around with that while working on ideas for MPDX). One thing I would think necessary if this were implemented would be to have a menu which can control the x/y/z position of the object in increments, due to the need for fine positioning. I am thinking of trying to make a script like this myself, but I am not sure how long it would take me to actually get it right. It could be a very useful tool, especially when working with 3d replacement scenery, where you have to have an amount of precision in regards to knowing where everything will be, and avoiding overlaps and such. The WYSIWYG factor would be really important as well. I am thinking that this is really just a necessity once you get into heavy usage of 3d replacement scenery objects, being that forge was never really intended for that kind of accuracy.

I brought these ideas up as a tangent in another thread, but I thought it merited a more in depth discussion on it's own.
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treellama
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I wanted to have the ability to offset in 1/4 WU increments, because that would make placing switches and terminals easier, but the controls were really too limited for me to put that in. I suppose a third mode would be necessary, in addition to "move" and "texture", I guess maybe it would be "texture prefs", and you could set or reset the U/V offsets. Or maybe a "precision" mode that would let you slide a texture by 1/8 WU or 1/1024 WU at a time. Dunno.

It's easy to make VM.lua even more difficult to use for beginners. So maybe precision texturing stuff belongs in its own script?

Lua cannot edit the starting position of items, currently, unfortunately, so that second kind of script is not yet possible without engine modifications.

Edit: well, I guess scenery might work. Just not items and monsters.
Last edited by treellama on Jul 8th '09, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Treellama wrote:I wanted to have the ability to offset in 1/4 WU increments, because that would make placing switches and terminals easier, but the controls were really too limited for me to put that in. I suppose a third mode would be necessary, in addition to "move" and "texture", I guess maybe it would be "texture prefs", and you could set or reset the U/V offsets. Or maybe a "precision" mode that would let you slide a texture by 1/8 WU or 1/1024 WU at a time. Dunno.
Like I said, the overlay menu interface is simple enough that it can do the job if we want to go so far as to increment the offsets by the numbers. But even without that, VM-L would be all the better to have the "precision" mode like you suggest, where it's basically the same point, shoot, and slide method, but with 1/8th or less WU incrementation.
Treellama wrote:It's easy to make VM.lua even more difficult to use for beginners. So maybe precision texturing stuff belongs in its own script?
I don't think it's really that steep of a learning curve. You could just tack it on as a third option to the aligned/not aligned selector when you go into map mode. And really, would you want to have to go through a second time with a different script just to tweak everything? Already you go from mapping (via forge or whatever), then into VM-L, it seems kind of silly not to include it.
Treellama wrote:Lua cannot edit the starting position of items, currently, unfortunately, so that second kind of script is not yet possible without engine modifications.
That's too bad. I think it's something that should be addressed at some point though, seeing as how Forge is really outdated for this kind of stuff as I mentioned before, and also because there just isn't anything much better available at this point (something I was complaining about in the MPDX thread). I'm not sure what you think about it, but I believe that there is a real future for solo scenarios which utilize 3d replacement scenery in clever ways, which is what I am setting out to demonstrate with MPDX. If people are going to use 3d objects in game, it only makes sense to be able to exercise the full potential of this feature, and that goes for Lua as well. I think the Lua interpreter is the best thing that could have happened to Aleph One. It's just that awesome, really.
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treellama
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Kurinn wrote:That's too bad. I think it's something that should be addressed at some point though, seeing as how Forge is really outdated for this kind of stuff as I mentioned before, and also because there just isn't anything much better available at this point (something I was complaining about in the MPDX thread).
It's hard to write a visual mode editor, that's why Visual Mode.lua was created. It's not as hard to create a decent geometry editor. The fact that nobody has done it doesn't mean we need to add 2D map creation stuff (I think item placement works better in overhead view) to the engine :)

Try placing some scenery and then doing .save level, I think it might work for scenery.
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tehWastedJamacan
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item placement does well in overhead until you get to overlaping polygons, especially buildings with multiple floors.
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effigy
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Yes, the height window in Forge would also benefit from the ability to enter information numerical vs. dragging the mouse.
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Kurinn
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tehWastedJamacan wrote:item placement does well in overhead until you get to overlaping polygons, especially buildings with multiple floors.
This is a good point, and really I wasn't even talking so much about items as I was about scenery, and 3d scenery at that.
I'm looking into .save'ing some scenery now.

Update:

Well, that didn't work.
Last edited by Kurinn on Jul 8th '09, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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tehWastedJamacan
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tell me how it works plz
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tehWastedJamacan wrote:tell me how it works plz
Not at all, that's how.
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treellama
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Yeah, it probably saves the original map objects, since otherwise if you textured a map it would be full of monsters and items and stuff.
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