???Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else"
Speak for yourself.
???Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else"
You'd have to be a fool to think this community needs anything more than Alpha One 2.0.0: At least I have my priorities in order.RyokoTK wrote:???Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else"
Speak for yourself.
I'm glad you brought this up. I think this whole argument basically boils down to, "Everyone in the community should strive to be more like W'rkncacnter."3371-Alpha wrote:Instead of netmaps, have you ever considered making netscripts for additional game modes?
That can literally be said about every aspect of Marathon, including the single player campaign. And, no! Do not try to respond to that with an example of something in Marathon that does it better than a new game. That's not the point of this.3371-Alpha wrote:I've tried Marathon's multiplayer before and it's fun, but in my opinion many newer games do do it better than Marathon.
Irrelevant.3371-Alpha wrote:but in my opinion many newer games do do it better than Marathon.
There are some pages of Simplici7y that are completely full of netmaps. If I'm not mistaken, the first page is for new stuff. There hasn't been much development on anything lately so you're not going to find them there.Windbreaker wrote:Considering only three out of ten uploads on Simplici7y's first page were mutliplayer maps, yeah, I can safely say this community does do other things. And I didn't even have to Google that.
Oh, you thought I was singling you out. I was actually referring to anybody & everybody. "Why don't you help out Hopper?"Windbreaker wrote:More importantly, why are mappers being held responsible for the community as a whole?
I have OCD & I'm a perfectionist, so sometimes I tend to get stuck in this idealism.Windbreaker wrote:This isn't some business where people have to pick up the slack.
I respect your opinion, as I too believe that if you do something you love you'll never work a day in your life. Sorry, I never realized you were so fond of your netmaps. But we all have our own things that make us happy (ironically i do actually enjoy maximizing things into something better, I like the challenge).Windbreaker wrote:Ryoko and I make maps because it's fun, not because we have this arrogant belief that "the community needs this more than anything else".
The only thing I don't understand now is what the hell happened to everyone? Crater Creator & Philltron told me about the time when this community was much more active. Even without them telling me, it's also evident by all the abandoned projects on Simplici7y (ie. tim4i). This is also why I don't really find the Marathon multiplayer to be that fun, I've never played with more than 6 people. That's hardly a party. Why is it that I joined this community after it died?! Just my luck.Windbreaker wrote:Jesus, why is that so hard to understand?
Ok, you made your point. I would be more dead if that were to happen. Sorry I even started this argument. I was just frustrated.Windbreaker wrote:Would you rather people not submit their content if it doesn't suit your own agenda? Because this community would just be more dead if that was the case.
Although my first statement was intended to be serious (you can't insult someone by calling them something their not), the second sentence was sort of a joke. I believe that laughter can usually heal all wounds. Looking back however, that probably wasn't the best time to laugh though.Windbreaker wrote:If you want to exact any real change in this community, being an armchair asshole is not the way to go about it.My point was "Millennial internet fuckboy" generally refers to someone who is worthless. Can't a guy be an asshole and still have purpose in life?
Like I said above, I was actually referring to anybody & everybody. I understand that coding may not be your thing, but it's the engine that's holding us back from getting new users & more variety. New users try the game only to be disgusted by it's archaic nature & creakiness. The only other way to play Marathon is using Freeverse's M2 engine, but unfortunately for us they didn't release the source. Anyone can learn to develop. Is it tedious? Yes. Is it time consuming? Yes. But honestly I think it's the only way. Not even I can guarantee that I can completely iron out AlephOne. There are plenty of us here on this site (well at least enough to develop) But currently there's only one man maintaining the engine: Hopper. If you truly want Marathon to have a larger, more vibrant community, you'd do it.Windbreaker wrote:So that responsibility falls on Ryoko and I? I'm just saying -- you're arguing for the time and effort of two people in the community, who don't have the skills and experience you need for your ideas. Because Ryoko and I are the only ones that still make multiplayer mappacks. I just don't understand why this seemed like a fight worth having to you.
An interesting fact about me is that I prefer old games for their story & new ones for their multiplayer. The old games were pioneers in their time &, like classic books, arguably have the best stories out there. Their Multiplayers tend to get old quick though, as they have less variety/game modes. The newer games on the other hand tend to have shit stories (most of the time you're just invading an arab country or Russia & killing everyone because "they're evil" or some other worn out stereotypical shit). However their wide & dynamic environments are what make them worth playing. Their great multiplayer can sometimes be countered by a community of dick hole "PC master-race" assholes though.Windbreaker wrote:That's funny, because many people online specifically play because they enjoy Marathon's multiplayer experience.
My strong strait forward personality is very similar to Linus Torvalds's personality. I will often blunt things out that are harsh/brutally honest, but that's just who I am. That's why I sometimes reference him here in the Pfhorums, I see him sort of like a role model of a developer. Since 6th grade I've been a fan of his work. You can see an excellent sample of his rude crude personality here.Windbreaker wrote:You're acting like your opinion of multiplayer should dictate the efforts of the whole community. And as we've said before, 3 out of 10 of the latest uploads have been multiplayer maps, so they are certainly not the entire effort of the community right now, so you can't say "I wish this community would do something else!!" Do you have a problem with how often we release maps? Because I'd think someone concerned with the community's activity would be, at a base level, happy to see people still making stuff for it in earnest. That's what I've always thought, at least.Frankly,I never implied they were facts, I just have very strong opinions about things. Frankly, it was the "in my opinion" part that comes before the sentence that was implied.If everyone in this community starts to hate me because of that, guess what? Fallout is still a piece of shit.aren't phrased like opinions, and:If I get banned because I offend a rabid fallout admin, fallout is still a piece of shit.Doesn't have the word opinion anywhere in it. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Frankly.The main reason why anyone would play Marathon these days is for it's campaign. It's wonderful campaign.
That's true Wrk's a dick. He's actually the one that setoff a lot of my hostility in this community, before he told me his insults were jokes. Though sometimes I still wonder.Windbreaker wrote:Your priorities just confuse me. If you want to code, focus on honing that skill. How effective do you think you'd be as a developer if you keep shitting on random people in the community? That's Wrk's job anyways.
I'll take a week break at most. Hopefully by then someone will have posted something new.philtron wrote:My advice to you. Take a break from the Pfhorums. Take a couple months away and come back with fresh eyes.
Is anyone really surprised at this point?RyokoTK wrote:This guy just compared himself to Linus Torvalds.
So you've never looked up to someone?RyokoTK wrote:This guy just compared himself to Linus Torvalds.
Abandoned projects on Simplic7y are actually part of a long tradition. Before that, it was abandoned projects on Fileball, and before that abandoned projects on the Bungie.org archives. They're nothing new, and I wouldn't consider them a reliable sign of anything. Or at least there are far better measurements out there.3371-Alpha wrote:The only thing I don't understand now is what the hell happened to everyone? Crater Creator & Philltron told me about the time when this community was much more active. Even without them telling me, it's also evident by all the abandoned projects on Simplici7y (ie. tim4i). This is also why I don't really find the Marathon multiplayer to be that fun, I've never played with more than 6 people. That's hardly a party. Why is it that I joined this community after it died?! Just my luck.
I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.3371-Alpha wrote:NETMAPS ARE FUCKING WORTHLESS, GET OVER IT!patrick wrote:3371-Alpha wrote:absolutely no respect for classicsyou're lameIf a person dives in a vat of radioactive shit and I tell him his chances of getting cancer are extremely high, does that mean I'm forcing him to develop cancer?Wrkncacnter wrote:[I hope you get the irony of telling others what type of computer they should be using.
I'm not forcing anyone to get a Macintosh, just saying it only makes logical sense for most Marathon gamers to be Mac users because of it's history as a Mac exclusive game.
Hmm handy! I had no idea about that -x option or to use it in that manner. I'm use to using a two liner rm .DS_Store before zip. I for one am pleasantly surprised reading this this thread wasn't an utter waste of time. Thanks!treellama wrote:Of course it does:The built-in archive utility for OS X has no such feature.Code: Select all
zip -r netmaps.zip -x ".DS_Store" netmaps/
Or it's because I never insulted you, and you know it.3371-Alpha wrote: I'm just gonna' ignore Wrk, since he's just being Wrk.
Burn!Wrkncacnter wrote:Or it's because I never insulted you, and you know it.3371-Alpha wrote: I'm just gonna' ignore Wrk, since he's just being Wrk.
Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it. Emulation is where you translate the machine instructions to run on a foreign architecture. Because your machine was already a 68k native machine, there was no need for translation, only virtualization. The reason why your Amiga was faster than a real 68k Mac was because the last version of the 68k processor Apple used was the 68040, while yours was a 68060 (the next generation). By the time Motorola introduced the 68060, they had already moved on to the PowerPC. Believe it or not, the PowerPC was much faster than the 68060. The only real limit the PowerMacs had was that many apps has to be ran through the Mac OS's built-in 68k emulator, since not all the developers decided to rewrite their apps for the new chip.hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.
Technically, Fusion was not virtualization, it was emulation. The 68k instruction set used for the Amiga was radically different that virtualization of the Mac platform on an Amiga was not possible in the early 90's. It also ran just as fast on my 68040 and 68030. I'd rather you not correct someone who does know what they are talking about and actively works in the electronic design industry. Unlike you, I actually studied and made it in life, whereas you would argue with a fence post to increase your post count.3371-Alpha wrote:Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it. Emulation is where you translate the machine instructions to run on a foreign architecture. Because your machine was already a 68k native machine, there was no need for translation, only virtualization. The reason why your Amiga was faster than a real 68k Mac was because the last version of the 68k processor Apple used was the 68040, while yours was a 68060 (the next generation). By the time Motorola introduced the 68060, they had already moved on to the PowerPC. Believe it or not, the PowerPC was much faster than the 68060. The only real limit the PowerMacs had was that many apps has to be ran through the Mac OS's built-in 68k emulator, since not all the developers decided to rewrite their apps for the new chip.hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.
Look kid, no one gives a flying hoot, and you just come off as a twerp even if you were right. So either way there is no win for you.3371-Alpha wrote:Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it.hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.
He isn't right, the 68040 chipset by itself is very basic in terms of instruction sets. That's why we needed a separate ROM chip for the emulator to function, later it was done via software (albeit at a performance hit, mine was hardware based). Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.herecomethej2000 wrote:Look kid, no one gives a flying hoot, and you just come off as a twerp even if you were right. So either way there is no win for you.3371-Alpha wrote:Technically, you were virtualizing it, not emulating it.hawkeyefile wrote:I never owned a Mac. I played Marathon on an Amiga 3000 (68060) via Fusion Emulation to run Mac OS 8.1 back in the day. It was funny as my Amiga (which cost way less) ran the Mac OS better than the Mac hardware. I've never owned a Mac.
Yeah, alpha can't leave for a week. He's single-handedly restoring the Pfhorums to their former glory.RyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.
We need to have the pigeon lounge back for people like him. I use to be an arrogant bitch like him, although I grew out of it.Wrkncacnter wrote:Yeah, alpha can't leave for a week. He's single-handedly restoring the Pfhorums to their former glory.RyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.
That and Apple always did things their own way even if the processor was the exact same. Look at intel macs and how hard it is to get MacOSX running on non mac hardware. Low level emulation is almost certainly required.hawkeyefile wrote: Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.
Gotta justify that 400% markup somehow.herecomethej2000 wrote:That and Apple always did things their own way even if the processor was the exact same. Look at intel macs and how hard it is to get MacOSX running on non mac hardware. Low level emulation is almost certainly required.hawkeyefile wrote: Alpha seems to fail to understand that the 68k chipset is nowhere near as unified as the x86-64 architecture.
Good luck with thatRyokoTK wrote:But as it turns out, he wasn't right. Again. I hope more people can come back to this community if for no other reason than to dunk on Alpha.